Battery Insiders Reflection - Battery Den

0:00Transcript

0:00Welcome to Battery Insiders, your podcast providing you insights in the fascinating world of batteries. Hosted by Bhavya Jha and Simon Engelke. And we're back. Welcome back, Simon. How's it going? Very well. How about you, Bhavya? Doing well over here. It's, you know, just spring is happening. Things are, some days are gloomy, some days are shiny, but every Saturday there's always the Battery Club. So we're here. That's true. That's the one consistent thing in our lives is batteries, actually. It kind of in some way became this way. Yeah, it has been a fun one. Yeah. So what did you think about last week's topic? You know, we had those three different ideas come to light. I think they seemed very cool. I'd love to hear about your thoughts on them. Yeah, no, I mean, it was really, really cool to have, you know, this battery-dent format. It's something we've been thinking about for some time. Yeah, we had like, you know, this really cool panel of experts and investors from the battery space with people. It was really interesting, different perspectives as well. I think, you know, from production, from a data standpoint, from an investing standpoint, and from a more like, you know, big company standpoint. And yeah, also these, these startups has been, has been quite cool. So we had like six in the end, and they've been really, I think I've just been really nice, you know, from, from having like, you know, quite advanced startups with like, you know, half a million turnover or so, which I think created a lot of excitement in the den. It felt like there was quite a few people on the end coming on stage and like, you know, getting interested to talk a little more, but also really heartwarming stories like Nihal from the US who does like, you know, recycle my battery and really, I think just blew the entire room away. And really, everyone was really touched by, you know, his story of how young people, I mean, his case, he's 12 years old and he has like lots of people, young people in his organization and what, you know, every one of us can do also for battery cycling and how to mobilize people, et cetera. So I think it was a really nice mix of, of really cool ideas and startups.

2:16So what are your thoughts on battery startups in general? You know, cause I'll, I'll, I'll say that sometimes when I join these conversations, we hear there's so many problems, there's not enough going on and we're focusing on the wrong thing, but then you have moments like this where there is a lot going on and there are so many ideas. Um, what does it take to like really, to actually make it and bring these ideas to full fruition and go from like, you know, first startup phase to, um, you know, not being a startup anymore. Um, I don't know how you, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think, I mean, the battery startups in itself are quite tricky, right? I think there is a reason why this is like such an area, right? Where you had, I think also we had this discussion right before with Steve Levine, right? From all these other startups in the past who tried to make it and they didn't. And there's some, you know, some quite some public stories about this. I think, um, what is quite interesting. I think that batteries is not just like, you know, that just like one thing you can do, right? It's not just, I will create a new material. I will commercialize the material as we had one of the startups, right? Uh, with Silicon, I think it's quite interesting. Of course, like, you know, to do this, that's, that's quite challenging, right? We have seen other stories like Cedar and others, right? Where it took much longer, or it still takes time, you know, to, to really commercialize it, you know, and what people in their vision would go much faster in the beginning. Um, so I think this can be quite tricky, right? These material startups, but of course, if it works, it's also really exciting, right? It's, it's a big part of the battery, but then we also have all these other startups, you know, from like one was on diagnostics, right? Like using ES, like using impedance or for testing batteries, like, you know, and I think this was quite cool, right? Like a diagnostic. I think that's a very interesting area as well. Then we had, you know, recycling, which is another really important area on it as well from China and, um, bouldering cycling. And I think, um, what I really enjoy is, you know, that it's not just like there's one battery startup anymore, right? Not people don't think only of one thing. I think it becomes more this entire industry, which needs lots of different startups for like addressing all the missing gaps. I mean, I think startups are there for addressing missing gaps, right? So, um, and because now batteries becomes much, much bigger topic and also, you know, enters more and more different areas of our lives as well. Like it requires more and more startups to fill more and more gaps. So it's not just like materials or recycling, but it's all these different things in between as well.

4:45Yeah. It sounds the way you're, I really appreciate the way you just framed that because, you know, whether it's materials or data or end of life, these are all three, just three of many big issues, um, or hot topics rather that we're all trying to work on or address in different ways in batteries. And I think it's kind of funny to think that the startup community for batteries and, um, you know, does reflect the multifaceted problems that come with, uh, lithium-ion batteries, but also just shows that there's a lot of good work happening to fill the gaps that we see. Um, so that there's a good, good light of hope at the end of the tunnel that we will, you know, um, ultimately land on some kind of standardized form or way of managing batteries and ensuring that they are the most sustainable, uh, uh, like sustainable technology out there. Well, thanks for sharing a bit about that. So I guess, um, to kind of drive this home, you know, what do you think drives the success of these ideas or rather influences them? You know, they're addressing different problems. They're, um, you know, they're global. What, what do you think is going to determine or has determined at least so far the success of like certain startup ideas that have kind of, um, been able to come out of the startup phase?

6:11I mean, it's a good question, right? If I would know, then I probably would be a very rich person. Of course I could, you know, like invest it all. I mean, you know, that's, that's something I think, I think startups is hard to predict sometimes right where it's going to go, but I think there are some, you know, some, you know, some basic, you know, formula from like, you know, the team, you know, the idea, the timing has to be right. I think there's a lot about timing as well. We can see, you know, some are too early or too late. Um, but then also like grit of the team, you know, I think being able to pivot, I mean, I think many startups who, when they kind of started, you know, they had this one clear idea and then they to like, you know, adjust it many times depending on what worked and what the, you know, the demand, like, you know, which, um, what was like the driver for the demand and what's like, you know, um, at the time, you know, the most important market and things.

6:59So I think, um, it's a kind of a nice mix and that's, I think also makes it exciting. I think that's why also the format of the battery down is quite interesting, right? Because it's also for me personally, right? I think, you know, also being in this area, you know, of startups related to batteries is, um, just to kind of like, you know, see kind of, you know, what, what kind of captures your attention at the moment, but then also knowing that you probably can really barely know who's going to succeed in the long term, right? It's, I mean, there's some obvious red flags, but any startup which has been going on for some time, probably it's, it's quite tricky to know, you know, like, will it, will it have this breakthrough or not? Right. I mean, if you look at the battery material startup, they can go to quite senior level, you know, like they've done like quite a bit of testing and then there's still, you know, there still doesn't work out in the end because it didn't work in the, you know, scale they thought it would, or the cost didn't work out or something else came up in the meantime. I mean, it's, I think it's really exciting, right? That's why I think also part of the appeal from startups also from the outside, because it's quite exciting and it's, yeah, it's, it's hard to predict these things. And then suddenly you have a massive breakthrough and like everyone's like, wow, where did this come from? So, yeah.

8:07Yeah, that sounds super exciting. And I guess, I guess we're lucky to be a part of it to varying degrees. Well, those are, those are the questions that I, I had after our discussion with the larger group. And I was really, I really enjoyed like hearing your take on it, especially given your own numerous experiences in the field. And yeah, I think I'm looking forward to next week. Do you, so do you know what our topic is for next week? No, that is exciting. Okay. It's like a proper startup. Well, shout out to our listeners. Please come through with new ideas. We're always looking to include ideas from our audience. But I know that you're co-hosting, so it's gonna be fun. But I know you're going to be co-hosting, so that's going to be great. Oh, yes. I will be co-hosting, so even more reason to join next week. Yes, please do join us. And we look forward to seeing you next Saturday. Sounds good. Speak then.

9:09Ciao. Bye.