Battery Insiders Reflection - Battery Industrialization

0:00Transcript

0:00Welcome to Battery Insiders, your podcast providing you insights in the fascinating world of batteries. Hosted by Bhavya Jha and Simon Engelke. And we're back. How's it going, Simon? Very well. Full of sun in Munich. The birds are chirping. The hills are singing. Yeah, I cannot believe how we're always making it into summer now. It's been a while. Yes, it's about time. People are out and about again here, at least in the US. I shouldn't speak for everywhere. So it is nice to see and feel the change as things really, really start to open up. But, you know, cautionary optimism or optimistic caution. Sorry. But it's good. But it's nice. So let's... Other parts of the world where we're also optimistic are batteries. What did you think about our conversation today about battery industrialization? Yeah, I think it was quite insightful in many ways and quite interesting and important conversation as well. Because, of course, one part is to come up with new inventions and new products.

1:26But then the great question is, right now, how are we going to scale them all up reliably, right, around the world? And I think it was quite interesting to have this perspective from... Because our conversation starter, Benedict, from P3 in Germany, of course, he brought also a lot of from the European perspective and the German perspective maybe as well. But I think also from the questions and from the audience, we had a quite interesting conversation from, you know, discussing, you know, how to scale up, you know, what's going to happen to Gigafactory Tesla in Berlin or near Berlin? What's going to happen to QuantumScape and all these really exciting announcements? Of course, a lot about them are all about scale and how to make this an industrial product at the level we need them to be. How about you? Yeah, I think the takeaway, one of the biggest takeaways, and I think one of his main points that I appreciated his thoughts on was, you know, like the three keys to success when it comes to industrializing, right?

2:21He talks about, you know, improving quality, improving performance, and improving, I believe it was scalability. And, you know, those three seem to come up every conversation. And I think that says a lot, a lot about what is needed of the battery world. But when I think about, okay, so what's the holdback? Well, you know, okay, innovation is there. And I think the focus on performance and quality is there. But as far as scale goes, there is scale. It's increasing as we speak. But I just, I can't help but think maybe there's that fourth key to success, which may just be time. The time factor in all of this to have to, you know, scale the quantity of batteries that actually need these processes. And I, you know, I am thinking here from like a end of life perspective, but of course, you can scale design of batteries as well, design and production. But that, of course, is driven by demand too. And, you know, and I guess almost the fifth factor that I'm thinking about is the economics, the money.

3:35Where's the money lead? And, you know, where is the money coming from? I think that has been a repeatedly important question here in the US, pretty much in every conversation I've had. Not so much in Europe, but I know that obviously that still plays a huge role that, you know, just based on my personal conversations with people in the industry. So those were, that was something that stuck out to me. And I felt like it has been reiterated, but was probably most paramount of importance in this conversation. Absolutely. And I think, yeah, it's these kind of metrics, right, which are so crucial as well. And it's kind of interesting how they're, you know, similar, I think, across, you know, the world in many ways. But of course, the priorities can be different, right? For some, the timing factor is more urgent maybe than in others. For some other one, it's, you know, the quality, of course, it's always, I guess, a crucial one. But then also, you know, the financial cost, right?

4:27Like how to, you know, get it to the price point we need, right? For having a broad, you know, decarbonization of transport through, like, you know, like the vehicles, but then also, especially from a stationary perspective as well, right? How can we reduce the price and the cost as much as we need to? And of course, scale has been one, right? But beyond that, I think there's a lot of ingenuity, you know, of different production scaling techniques. Also, we have seen, you know, announcements from all around from, you know, either reducing cost of materials and, like, other protection techniques, dry electrodes, et cetera. So it's quite, I think, fascinating to see where the biggest driver is going to be coming in the next, near future. So, you know, like, as he was talking, I, you know, thinking about, well, you just mentioned biggest drivers in the future. It's interesting that, to reflect on his conversation and contextualize Northvolt in it. Having visited there and, you know, seeing, it was interesting to hear, oh, we have orders until X, Y, and Z year.

5:38You know, what did it take to get to that point? You haven't even started producing it. You're only still, you were, at the time, like, still creating your construction plant and whatnot. And this was a couple of years back, admittedly, but it just makes you wonder, how do you get to that point in the battery field? And, you know, you, I often hear, especially through our Battery Insiders meetings and the Battery Revolution chats on Saturdays that, oh, here's X, Y, Z names are being dropped left and right. And I'm like, wow, there's so many startups. How do you stand out in this? And, you know, it definitely helps to, you know, have a mission, have a very specific reason that, and show the world that this is a gap that you're filling. And I think Northvolt, for example, has done a very good job of that. And of course, to have a team with expertise and, you know, just establishing credibility. But all of that is just such a, there's only stuff working against you.

6:37So I do, I am in awe of how companies in this battery space are, you know, popping up and kind of marking their territory. Like, this is our thing. That's what we're going to be good at. And when you finally hear about it, it just makes you think, at least for people like us, like, wow, so much work has just gotten into this. But I guess that's also, you know, across industries, I think that's also just the name of the game with startup life. So I know that it's not exclusionary to batteries, but I do think that right now, the, like, emphasis on electric transportation and sustainable energy has really made it a tricky space to break into. Yeah. And I think, as you say, right, it's a little about timing as well, right? I mean, I think if you look at these success stories, it would be more tough now, right? I think, you know, to have, like, be ahead of the game, let's say, right?

7:28I mean, like, having these great pre-orders, et cetera, you know, it was kind of a nice kind of, you know, prediction. But I think that they would enter this market early on, you know, and, you know, kind of putting their foot down, essentially becoming the European player before even, as you said, of being produced, you know, at commercial big scale. And I think it's also kind of interesting to kind of think about all the money going into this industry right now, right? And kind of think about before it was quite, like, a small, you know, compared industry, right, to what it's becoming now. And just to think, like, you know, what are all the opportunities coming from that, right? Just from resources pouring into it. And one big thing is scale up, right? I think a lot of the research before has been done in laboratories, right? I mean, if you even look at where the batteries came from, a lot of the developments, right?

8:15All from academic labs as well and some other companies. And I think now just being with all this money and all these resources being in the field, I think it's going to be quite interesting and exciting to see what's going to happen. Yeah. And, you know, what all the amazing breakthroughs are still going to be about to happen. Absolutely. And hopefully we'll hear about them on Battery Revolution. Absolutely. And also on Battery Dan, which is going to come up, I think, in about a month or so. Oh, that's great. All right. Next round, right? Exactly. Second round. It'll be quite interesting. Second round, true. And it's, I just really find it really fascinating to see all these startups. And also in the meantime, I heard, you know, some of these startups again, you know, in the work they're doing and the news. And yeah, it's just really exciting to see what happens. Well, we're happy to share the good news here. So thanks for taking the time to join me in this reflection this week.

9:07And I am looking forward to our session next week. Likewise. Speak then. Well, everyone's ready.