Battery Revolution Clubhouse Recording - Battery Den 2

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0:56So welcome everyone to our second Battery Den. I'm very happy to be hosting this with Simon. So a quick introduction about myself. I'm a co-founder and CEO of Robles. And Simon is the founder of Battery Associates, which also does a great session of BatteryMBA. So feel free to check out our profiles. The purpose of this event is really to facilitate connections between startups and VCs and tech experts. So we have a great panel here from Stephanie, who's an expert from ABB at e-mobility and EV charging. And we have Maggie, board member of Women's Network Energy, now board member of Women's Energy Network from Boston. Sorry for the slip up, Maggie. And Bruce, clean tech advisor at Global Founders Capital and Battery Data Research at Stanford University. And Rami, who's a principal at Elevate BC. So some housekeeping for today. We will actually be switching off the hand raising function as of now. And the hand raising function will be available after every startup has pitched.

2:09So if you're here in the audience, please feel free to stay to the end of the event. So you can join us on stage to interact with the startups. And once you're on stage, please keep your mics muted when you're not talking. And if you wish to clap, just flutter your mics up. For the format of this event, each startup will have about three minutes to pitch. And you will hear an elevator sound that introduces a startup into the elevator. So everyone will imagine that in the elevator with the panelists. And at the end of the pitch, the panelists gets about 10 to 15 minutes of Q&A and general feedback, basically for the startups to interact with the panelists as well. Right. Maybe I'll pass on to Simon. Do you have anything to add to the Kickstarter event? Absolutely. Thank you so much, Catherine. Yeah, also a big welcome from my side. And, you know, as you can, if you have been following us for a while, you know, we have been running these sessions for quite a while.

3:12You can see a 24 on the top, which says we have been running, you know, the battery evolution sessions for 24 times. It's remarkable for myself to realize that. Catherine and I, we actually met on Clubhouse and very fortunate also to have met Maggie, Stephanie, Remy and Bruce as well. And yeah, we're running this, you know, the second time. We run weekly sessions every Saturday on all kinds of battery topics from, you know, recycling all the way to application, et cetera. And I think something which came up, you know, when we had these sessions is that we also, you know, always are amazed by all these exciting startups out there, but we felt it would be nice to have like a platform. We can actually, you know, have them pitch and present and get like nice feedback. So my really esteemed and also like a diverse group of people, this panel we have today, because, you know, sometimes it can be quite, you know, startups, I think always want to pitch, but I think sometimes they're good times to do that.

4:01Sometimes they're less good times. And today's a perfect time for that because that's what these, one of ours really for, for doing these pitches, learning from each other and really, you know, strengthening this community of, you know, different experts from all around the world. And yeah, as, as Catherine said, you know, the, the, the theme is kind of like an elevator pitch. So imagine us all getting into this really big, you know, maybe post COVID elevators, you know, and really like learning from each other and, you know, and having this really unique chance of time to, to really have this like, you know, brain trust in the room. And yeah, with this, I maybe we'll give it to you, Catherine, to, you know, introduce the first startup. Perfect. So the first startup that we have is Devic, founder and CEO of Go Green EOT. Devic, the floor is yours. Right. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for that introductory sound, Catherine. Well, my name is Devic. I head a company called Go Green EOT, Private Limited.

5:07That's a company based out of India. Primarily I've, I've been in the, I've been in the electric mobility space for the last 14 years. With that deep learning, we've, we've very clearly come to understand that, I mean, our focus has been, our focus has been predominantly on the B2B side of electric two wheelers. What do we do? We assemble electric two wheelers, which are differentiated with differentiated business models, which are backed by deep technology in the battery space and the shared mobility space. With that, also, we do understand that India as a market or globally as a market, it's the cost for an electric vehicle, which is extremely expensive. And so that's a side that we worked on extensively. And today in India, even if I'm to cross compare it with any of my closest competitors, we would be close to about 50 percent lesser in terms of cost of the product itself. Even at 50 percent less in terms of the cost of the product with, with EBITDA positive.

6:04The first round of investment that we raised was from Shell. We would be giving them an exit because the second round, which we're running right now, is from another oil and gas company, which has come in as a strategic player. We are looking out for investors. We are looking out for investors, financial investors at this point in time. That said, our business model is our business model is quite differentiated where we like I said, we work with the B2B companies. We're not very capital intensive. We end up selling the vehicles to another company which holds these assets and they end up leasing the vehicles out to the delivery companies itself. What, what, what I mean, this is our belief that these are the, these are the three areas which is, which is clearly defined success in electric vehicles. It'd be surprising. It would also be surprising if I say that electric vehicles is a 2020 phenomena. Mobility services is a 2021 and a 2021 to 2030 phenomena.

7:01And that's exactly the side that we've kind of focused on. What we think are the key areas which are defined success with electric vehicles is the data, the engineering that you can build up with battery, and your go-to-market strategies. On the data front, with the data that we've ended up collecting, we have close to about 44 different business models that we'd be enabling. We also do, we also do intend to be a data as a service platform. On the battery front, on the battery front, we have filed close to about 16 patents out of which six of them are grants. The technologies that we've kind of worked on extend the life of the battery pack by a factor of 2x, reduce the temperature buildup in a battery by close to around about 46 to 64 percent, as the case may be. And also we, also we closely believe in the whole connected, on the whole connected side. And even on that front, we have around about eight patents that we've applied.

7:56It's a three-minute pitch, so I would not be able to take in more detail, but I'd be more than happy to answer questions. All right, I think I'm done with time, but I'd be more than happy to take questions and connect with us. Thanks, thanks for the time, Simon and Catherine. All right, are we asking questions yet, Catherine, Simon? Yes, thank you so much for the pitch, Divik. Let's open up the floor to the panelists. Bruce, would you like to go up first? Yeah, sure thing. Divik, thanks for that pitch. So very, very interesting that you've been in the e-mobility space for the last 14 years. And with your previous company, is this an exponent of that previous company where you're basically looking for a different route to excel your business? Or is this something that's completely novel and you're still setting it up, saying that you've raised your first round? I'm trying to get a sense of where you guys are at in terms of skill that you've acquired.

9:03Great question, Bruce. So yeah, both the companies are isolated. There's no correlation between company A and company B. In the first avatar, we kind of played primarily with lead-acid batteries. In the second, because of the learnings that we had in the mobility space, those are the ones that we've taken forward on developing better technologies on the lithium front. And also probably I'd have to point out another thing that we are not at a product. I mean, we already have a product in the market. We have orders. Our order book today reads about 2,500 vehicles, which we are on a negative, meaning to say that we'd have to deliver close to about 2,500 vehicles. So we are an EBITDA positive company as of now and going forward as well. I hope that answers your question, Bruce. You can actually ask full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full full And I didn't catch your answer. I'm sorry. Something cut out.

10:31No, I've still not answered. But if you have another question, I can take both of them in. Okay. Yeah. Well, I have a couple. So that was the first one. And I think you mentioned a 50% cost reduction. Just curious as to what buckets that came out of. And then just kind of on your customer base, what areas are you selling without, you don't have to divulge who your customers are, but what space are they in? And is it fleet or is it personal or rental? Right. Got all those three. Well, so we're not re-engineering the cell. We're not redesigning the cell. Our technologies that we've built are primarily at the battery pack level. Just to give you one, I mean, it's extremely hard to put 14 years of experience in like three minutes, three minute elevator pitch. So that's probably the reason why it didn't come out. That's probably the reason why it didn't come out quite clear. One of them that we do is, just to give you an example, we've been able to reduce the discharge rates, keeping the speed at the same level, because of which the thermal buildup is a lot lesser. That's one. And second thing is we also cool our batteries using, I mean, we are a liquid cooled battery. We will be the first ones to come out of the liquid cooled battery pack for a two wheeler. And the USP here is we do not consume energy from the battery to cool the battery. So by doing all of this, we're able to reduce the temperature down by down close to about 60, 64%. And on the cost reduction buckets, I mean, that's predominantly to do with the fact that I don't need to oversize my battery. And this is something that we've already tested. And it's already proved, I mean, at a lab scale, we're close to about a seven year tenure in life of the battery itself. And even our business models there adds in to how we're able to reduce the cost. Just a side note on this, we were also part of the Cambridge Cleantech Accelerator program. And even there, Martin Gareth, who heads the Cambridge Cleantech, said that this is probably the way mobility would be going forward, is what he said. And on the last piece, who's my customer base?

12:50My customer is, so I don't sell to, even if you come to me, I would not sell to you as a customer. So we're not a B2C facing company. We are a B2B facing company. So we help companies like Amazon that use their delivery costs. We help DoorDash reduce their last mile delivery costs. So our focus is not on the consumer market, but that doesn't mean that we've stopped ourselves from wanting to get in. In my previous avatar, like what I was explaining, Bruce, that we did sell to consumers. We know the challenges and those challenges would or could probably not be challenges going forward with time when the demand kind of peaks. And that's when we want to get into the consumer space. I hope that answers all the three questions that you had. Absolutely. And I liked all those answers. Thank you. Thanks, Heidi. Hi, Javik. Thank you again for your pitch. So my question is, I'd like to know more about your charging strategy. So how are these vehicles being charged? Is it battery swapping? Are you doing cable connected? What's the charging strategy?

13:56Thanks, Stephanie. And I definitely know where that's coming from, being ABB, which is into charging. But that said, we do not believe in a swapping story at all. We believe in a hard-coded battery pack. And I mean, obviously, even when I said the whole liquid-cooled battery pack, it's going to be extremely comfortable if it would have to pull the battery pack out. And that said, added on to that, we don't intend to set up our own charging infra per se. But on a no-name basis, there's an oil and gas company who is extremely interested in the data that we've collected to set their charging stations up. I hope that answers your question, Stephanie. So essentially, the vehicles are being charged by either level two chargers or chargers that are already... You don't own the charging infrastructure, but they're just charged by existing chargers. Right. It's not even level two. Even when I look at it, I mean, I'm running on a four kilowatt hour battery pack or a 3.2 kilowatt hour battery pack. So this can actually be charged at home overnight. And in India, I mean, generally people prefer doing it at home because the infrastructure is not set up as much as consumers would like to have it. So yeah, so we do it at home. But nevertheless, we would be able to take a 7.2 kilowatt of power into the battery pack at this at this point in time, at this stage of our journey.

15:37I hope that answers. Great. Thank you. Thanks. Hi, David. This is Remy. Thank you for the presentation. I have a number of questions, brother. I think I will space them out so I don't overlook you from the get go. But my first question is, can you understand why two-wheelers and not three or four-wheelers? Thanks, Remy. I mean, that was a question that we kind of came out with every single day. And if I look at India, just to put a perspective, out of every thousand vehicles sold, they're close to about 724 two-wheelers sold. Oh, sorry, sorry, my bad. Out of every thousand people, there's 724 two-wheelers sold. And out of thousand people, it's only 24-wheelers sold. And especially in the space that we are in, especially in the space that we are in, which is the B2B side that we wanted to focus on, we've very clearly looked at it as, I mean, like when we look at India and we see the B2B demand, it's going to be more tilted towards the two-wheelers because your food delivery does not really need a three-wheeler. Your grocery delivery to a certain level, it's a 50-50 split between a three and a four. Your e-commerce is about 60 to 40 split, 60% to the two-wheeler. And I'm in the biggest market for two-wheelers. And these are the reasons as to why we had to look at two-wheelers. It's not that, it's not that, you know, we just came into it because it's probably presumably a lot easier, but I mean, there was a lot of deeper learning and deeper understanding about what would work and what would not. And even if you look at it from the part of the world that you are in, Vietnam is one of the biggest markets. Gojek is another big market for two-wheelers.

17:25So we definitely think that two-wheelers would roll the roost for a longer time to come. Cool. I hope that makes sense. Yep, yep, it does. And the second question is, are you measuring the sustainability impact that you are making? For example, are you measuring the CO2 reduction that you're creating on the world today? Right. That's a great question. I mean, it's a byproduct of what we do. When I say it's a byproduct of what we do, we are the only company in India which has a connected two-wheeler for the B2B market. So since it's connected, I have, I mean, every single thing that I get off the vehicle, I get close to about 264 data sets. Now for me, the SDG impact or the carbon reduction impact is a byproduct. So it is quite easy, but we're not doing it right now because I mean, that's something that no one's really asked us, but can be done. Cool. And I would suggest you start tracking that sooner rather than later because that is going to be something very important and it's probably more a matter of months than a matter of years. So I suggest you start doing that. And especially if you have some of these data sets on hand, that's my suggestion. And no, but I think your question actually led me to more of a clarification because initially you were saying that you are manufacturing and building out these two wheelers and selling them to a partner who will then lease them out. So how could you share a little bit more about that? Because I'm getting a little bit confused with what the business model is. How do you get the data sets back to the home base?

19:14Right. At the end of it, I hold the warranty card, right? And if I have to give it a warranty, then I'd have to look at how the batteries are performed. Right? Now that's where, you know, the data sets coming out. I mean, when I said that 264 pings, I get 264, but I'm showing only about 30 to the company, which is in the, in the, which is in between. And the reason why we had to sell the vehicles to the company in between is today, when I look at my order book, it's healthy, but tomorrow it's only going to get better because I mean, this is the only way that we see. So this is the only way that we see that delivery companies are ever going to be profitable. Now that said, that's the reason why we had to have this interim or rather this mid mid agency, which is actually buying the assets. And also this company, which is buying the assets is a part of the strategic investor who's coming in as well. So, uh, I mean, so his capital is not deployed to buying the assets, but it's deployed to the company. But, uh, for us, I mean, we wanted to be as capitalized as possible and not really have it on our books. I don't know if that answered your question, but if it didn't, I would be more than happy to kind of take you through it, uh, on a one-to-one basis. Uh, Ben. Of course, of course. Thank you. And, and, uh, I thought that then starts to make sense because if you have a, uh, I recall you saying it's a large oil and gas company and it seems like they will be the one who will be front facing the likes of Amazon and DoorDash. Am I ready to say that?

20:46Right. You're right in saying that. And I, I feel that, uh, you know, it's come down to their neck at this point in time in terms of, uh, trying to be clean and clean and even to a certain level. I mean, I'm just saying, uh, even the, I mean, the first round that we raised was from Shell and the second round is another oil and gas company, which wants to buy out the first, right? So, so they have a lot at stake and even just putting their name on it and saying that, Hey, you know what the point that you just made before the carbon credits or the carbon points, that is definitely one of the 44 strategies that we have, but that is not something which is at the top of the priority list at this point in time. And that's the only reason why we kind of curtailed it. I hope that answers as well, Remy. Cool. Got it. Got it. Uh, cool. Thank you. And that's, that's all, that's all for me as well.

21:38Thank you so much. Good presentation, David. Thanks. Thanks, Dan, Remy. Thanks. Uh, one more question if I can, uh, where are you looking to expand? I know that India is a big market. China is a big market. Are you looking to expand outside India? And if so, where do you think the next big market is for this? Um, that's a great question, Maggie, but, uh, right now, I mean, we are so focused on India because India is by and large, the biggest market for two wheelers. And if I can crack it here, I can crack it anywhere else in the world. Yeah. I completely agree. Gotcha. Thank you. Thanks, Maggie. Um, if I may, one question, uh, I actually have a lot of questions, but I'll focus on this one first. Um, in terms of the defensibility of your company, uh, with respect to other companies, um, how would you characterize that? Is it purely that you can compete on price? Um, if you look at the, on a larger scale, um, to competitors also from out of, uh, outside of India, or how would you personally characterize the defensibility of your new venture?

22:44Uh, great question, Bruce. I mean, this, this definitely is going to be a long answer, but I'll try to keep it short. Uh, uh, uh, the way, the way that I, the way that I've looked at it is, you know, when, when, when I look at disruption, disruption is basically coming at a price point, right? I mean, the way that iPhones came in and the way that the first Nokia phones kind of came out. And then when Android came out, the way that it kind of decreased the cost of the product, which ended up mass adoption, right? So it's a domino effect at the end of it, right? Now that is one of the characters. And that said, even if you look at, I mean, just to just kind of extrapolate the same story, even if you look at the whole shared mobility by and large, right? Just because the first company, which raised a billion, which is more bike said, Hey, you know what? I'm going to put cycles everywhere across and make this into shared mobility. And that's the way the world has ever followed. There's not a change ever done, but the beat in the part of the world that you're in as well. They're doing the same as what was done before. So where I'm coming from is even when I look at it, the balance is now tilting towards the OEMs in terms of the services that they can actually play with.

23:57It would not be too long before Tesla even says, Hey, you know what? I'm going to give you an update on the app where you can actually pick up or, you know, get dropped off when the driver is heading back home. Right? So like I said, I mean, my defensibility is just not of the fact that I'm running low on costs, but the fact that data is what's helping me build the next future models is where we are at. Yeah, that's a great answer. Thanks for that, Divik. Yeah, myself, I'm into the data analytics working for Stanford University. So I'd love to, at another point, have a very long and in-depth discussion about all the different things you can do with data. But what would be your one sentence that would blow any investor out of the water when you said we can do this specifically with all the data that we gather? Oh, I mean, that's a nice question, Bruce. That's a very nice question. And I really don't have an answer. I'm even actually laughing myself out to even give this answer. But that's a very nice question.

25:03Okay. I mean, I did look you up. I mean, I did look you up. And I did see that you're a data scientist as well at Stanford. And we definitely love to collect because Connect, I think William Leem, I think there was a guy called William Leem, who is also from Stanford on data science. He's one person that I was interacting with for a brief period of time. Okay, no, let's definitely follow up on that, Divik. If anyone else has some questions, please, you should. Thanks so much, Divik. Does anyone have any other questions for Divik from the panel? I have a lot of questions for Divik, but I'll reserve that to the panel and I'll reserve the time for the next startup as well. Okay, if there are no other further questions, thank you so much, Divik, for your excellent pitch. I hope this is helpful to you. Thank you. And please stay for the whole duration of the session. We will also open up the floor later on for anyone to interact with you.

26:13Thanks for your opportunity, Catherine. Thanks, Simon, as well. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Before we move on to Martin, I just want to give a quick shout out to Rose. Rose, you were one of the startups that signed up for this event and was selected for this event as well. So have you managed to get your clearance from your company? Are you able to pitch? Yeah, but still, it's okay. Okay, so would you like to pitch for this session? Okay, so is it my turn? Yeah, so you have three minutes to pitch. And after that, we will open up the floor for the panelists for questions and answers. So please go ahead and start after you have entered the elevator at the end of the elevator music sound. Okay, imagine a rechargeable battery that has no thermal runaway issues, easy to manufacture, without specialized environment and equipment needed, low cost, more environment friendly, and just a bit of battery management system. Well, we got you covered.

27:31So this particular battery is actually a battery that is different from any other type of conventional battery that we have around. The battery is composed of electrode and electrolyte assembly that does not include lithium ions. So that's the reason why we were able to say that it has no thermal runaway issues. And the architecture can be manufactured and the technology can be easily transferred to any other type of environment because of not needing any specialized materials or any inert environment where we manufacture lithium-ion batteries. It's a low cost because of the abundance and no competition as of this moment with respect to the raw materials that we use for the battery. So yeah, this is how we will be introducing our product in the market. Hi, Rose. This is Maggie. Thank you so much. I'm curious as I got a bunch of questions, but curious as to where you are in your development. Are you still in the pure research phase? Have you done prototypes? Have you done testing of prototypes? Or, you know, on a scale of zero to 10, zero being benched, 10 being commercially ready, whereabouts are you with this technology?

29:02So far, we are actually in the pure research stage, but we already have some prototypes that are actually in progress of cycling. So with the scale of zero to 10, I think we are actually at the sixth or seventh, the second, if I will evaluate. Yeah. And where are you looking? What size, what format, what application are you looking at for this technology? This technology can be actually used from the small scale to the large scale production. But recently, as how we wanted to undertake the R&D, we started targeting first the small scale application, which can be in terms of small battery storage for cell phones and power banks. And then once the battery was optimized, then we move on to the next higher scales of application. Okay. And is it more power or more energy? It's both more power and more energy plus more environment friendly, low cost, and very safe. Thank you. So Rose, it sounds like you have found a hidden gem or found something that's gonna knock out all the competition. Is there anything you're saying it has a high energy density, high power capability, low cost? Is there anything that's uncertain about this development?

30:39Or are all green lights ahead? Well, I say it's high power density. But basically, what I wanted to admit now is that it might not be able to reach the high power density and high energy density of the best lithium-ion battery available. But what I can say is that it can compete with the present battery being used today, the best of the best of it. And also, it's very low cost because of course, we're not using lithium, we're not using cobalt. And it's very environment friendly because of the fact that extracting the raw materials metals is actually very easy because when you're trying to mine metals and other precious stones, it comes to copper. So yeah, basically, what I can say is that as the head scientist of this project, it is a total game changer in the battery industry. Okay, can you tell a little bit more about who the head scientist is or where you're working out of, which research institution, if at all, or maybe a company? A little bit about your colleagues and team?

31:59Yeah, I am the head scientist of the project. And I am also the president of the company. I oversee all the experimental and research and development activities of this battery. And with me are a team of well-esteem scientists from a very prestigious university from Australia, and also a very prestigious university, an Ivy League university here in the Philippines. And also, we have several collaborations from the Philippine government, such as the Department of Science and Technology, which actually gives or backs this up with respect to exchanges of expertise and also facilities. Because right now, the reason why we have partners in Australia is because the pandemic actually have impacted us most, which delayed the kickoff of our energy laboratory here in the Philippines. But we got it covered. We are actually moving forward. And most likely a few months from now, we will be able to introduce our first prototype. Hi, Rose, it's Stephanie. So I'm curious about your timelines. When are you looking to have that first prototype ready? And when are you looking to then have something that can be commercialized?

33:23So honestly, the first prototype will be ready by the first quarter of 2022. That's actually the latest, the first prototype. We have encountered a lot of unavoidable circumstances before that actually delayed the introduction of the prototype. So by the first quarter of 2022, I think we will be ready to launch the prototype. After that, we are actually moving on to another architecture. Yeah, so we actually focus more on optimizing this battery and trying the ideal and the best architecture to basically highlight the capabilities of the battery. We have actually a commercialization arm to take care of the commercialization whenever it's ready. Hi, Rose, this is Remy. Firstly, thank you for the pitch. And just a couple of quick questions. Firstly, who owns the patent to this technology? The patent was owned by Sendai Holdings. This is an Australian company. And I was the principal inventor of the technology. So I was the inventor and then Sendai Holdings, I assigned the patent to Sendai Holdings. So how does this work? Does Sendai Holdings then have a back-to-back arrangement for an evergreen, exclusive worldwide license back to you?

35:02Yeah, there is actually a licensing agreement already signed, so we got it all covered. Cool. And so could you then share a little bit more as to why do you put it under Sendai Holdings? Because when we, Sendai Holdings is actually a commercialization partner of the company. And basically the first one to initiate the talks with regards to their interest of initially funding the R&D of this particular project. So later on, we actually progressed into licensing agreements and the rest is, you know. Okay. Okay. You got it. All right. And so moving on to the commercial side of things. So at the, I mean, you mentioned about six or seven on scale of one to 10 in terms of, you know, being commercially ready and a prototype by Q1 2022. Are you, you know, you typically for companies that are introducing something almost brand new at this stage, you will very likely have LOIs and hopefully be actually working in the labs of a couple of partners who will give you the specs of their ideal final product. Do you, do you have something like that going in place right now?

36:29Um, yes, but basically the commercialization arm of the Sendai Holdings takes care of that. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Okay. Uh, Rose, um, one, one thing that I'm very curious about, and maybe other people in the audience is, could you elucidate a little bit more about the chemistry of this, of this battery, or if you can not say details, what we should kind of be thinking of in terms of what type of materials go into this battery? Okay. So with respect to the chemistry of this, um, it ranges from being an AQs battery to a solid-state battery. Okay. So we are actually eyeing three, three types. It can be a, um, yeah, a simple AQs battery. And then we also have a flow battery for a large scale small consumer electronics devices. So, um, um, it is non-lithiated. So basically we have no problems with respect to, uh, thermal runaways and, um, um, the electrolyte concentration is actually optimized already. And, um, yeah, uh, problems like, uh, increase in temperature.

38:00That's why we say that the battery is actually very, very safe and there is no, uh, temperature related issues. So other than the, other than this, uh, information, um, what I can say is that with respect to the materials, it is, it's, it's actually, um, uh, made out, it's actually a type of, uh, zinc ion battery. Yeah. All right. Very interesting. Thank you. And one last question, if I could, you, you've mentioned the environmental friendly aspects, um, with respect to mining, um, any other environmental, um, gains that you get for potential manufacturing process? Uh, yeah. Another thing is that this type of battery has no geopolitical issues. As of now, we are actually facing, um, uh, environmental clamors on mining and lithium-ion and basically the supply of lithium-ion available worldwide. So one of the environmental, uh, uh, uh, advantages of this particular battery is that the chemistry itself is actually away from the usual sensational, uh, raw materials that we use. And of course, um, uh, the, the materials are actually, uh, basically highly, uh, recyclable. So that's why I say it's, more environmentally friendly and the way we extract zinc from the environment is actually friendlier than how we extract lithium-ion.

39:48Thank you. Uh, one more question if I can. Um, so, um, I'm aware with, with the zinc ion batteries, um, high vote or getting the battery up to high voltage, um, while maintaining stability throughout its life, uh, could be, um, challenged. So how are you guys, uh, trying to tackle that problem? We actually have, uh, tailor-made our, the architecture of the cathode and the zinc anode, which is one of the most novel, uh, which is one of the most novel processes that we can actually name when we talk about zinc ion batteries. Okay. So again, that the, the, the manner of synthesizing the anode, the manner of synthesizing the cathode, all of these are actually, um, novel, you know, novel, novel processes and also the combinations of the electrolytes that are, uh, higher, higher, uh, energy density, long cycle life. And basically it can also perform efficiently at higher C rates higher than you can imagine. Hi Rose. So it's been mentioned already that, uh, this is definitely kind of like the unicorn or a gem that you guys have. Um, so you mentioned all these really great properties and then, uh, the price point is super low. Uh, so I think you touched upon already it's because of the materials that are going to be used. Um, but what sort of data do you already have or kind of proof points that you already have to really demonstrate that, you know, first of all, all these amazing qualities and then the price point is going to be very low. Yeah. So we are actually, uh, if, if the lithium-ion battery sits at around, uh, uh, 90 to a hundred kilowatt per hour, um, theoretically in the lab, we're actually sitting at around 10 to 15 kilowatt hour, but this is just theoretical because if we try to move on to manufacturing, this becomes a bit higher because of the other costs. But I think we are sitting at around 25 to 30, so that's how low the price of this battery could be in terms of when we talk about its cost. Yeah.

42:19Thank you so much, Rose and the panelists. Are there any final questions for Rose? Okay. If not, um, thank you so much for your excellent pitch. Let's move on to thank you. Thanks Rose. Let's move on to the next, the next and final startup, uh, Martin. Martin, are you there? Yes, I'm here and I'm here, uh, with my partner, Louis and he will be pitching. He'll be the one pitching. Great. Perfect. So very happy to have, um, Martin, CTO of Milner Energy together with Louis, CEO of Milner Energy. And, uh, Martin and Louis, the floor is yours. Hello. Uh, my name is Louis and I'm here with my partner, my team and our company's name is Milner Milner Energy. So we are a power company, but we're not like any power company. Uh, we provide bi-directional electric vehicle chargers for power intensive facilities and using our proprietary algorithm, we coordinate the charging and discharging of each EV, essentially creating a giant virtual battery. So this allows us to increase the energy efficiency of the facilities while also providing critical services to the utility grid. Our main source of revenue is from the services to the utility grid. And I won't get sidetracked into too much detail on what those services are, but all you need to know is that we are participating in the primary reserve markets, which are established regulator markets and the grid can't operate without them. Now, the good thing about reserve services is that we get paid whether or not we are actually needed at that moment. That means that we have a reliable, constant revenue stream. In order to participate in this market, we need an established connection to the grid. And this is where the power intensive facilities come into play. So we will install our battery banks and our bi-directional chargers locally, and using, we'll use the available capacity of the vehicles and batteries to provide peak shaving for the building, saving them up to 25% on the demand chargers of their electric bill. And in turn, we charge them a PPA for our services while also getting a connection to the grid.

44:36Our solution is highly scalable. The way we coordinate the EVs is through a cloud algorithm, meaning that the location of those vehicles does not matter. The key point is that since we are an aggregator of electric vehicles and battery banks, each new charger we install and EV we connect increases the size of our reserves. Once the algorithm is deployed, it does not matter if we have two or 20 installations because it will work the same way. So it's just a matter of installing new chargers. We plan to start in the Nordics, since they are ahead of the curve in terms of EV adoption, and later we'll use those key lessons learned there to expand to the rest of Europe and even more countries afterwards. By 2025, we project to have 39 installations and an estimated 4 million euros in revenues. Martim and I have experience in the power and electrical sector. I have worked for Florida Power and Light as well as GE Solar for over two years, and Martim has been working with a battery startup providing demand-side management and ancillary services in the Netherlands for one year. We're currently developing the algorithm as part of our master thesis in renewable energy, and we want to have a beta version operational by the end of the year. We are reaching out to potential customers or partners as we speak, as well as expanding our team with other competencies such as sales and marketing, to make sure that we've formed the necessary relationships to ensure our success.

45:57We're looking for 250,000 of initial funding to finish the algorithm and make our vision a reality. And we know that all the members of the jury are experts in this field, so if you shame the same vision as us, we'd love to continue this conversation after the elevator ride and see if a partnership is possible. So thank you so much for your time. This is actually my stop, so I'll get off here, but we're ready to tackle any questions you may have. Thank you so much, Luis. Right on time. Hi Luis and Martim, it's Stephanie. First of all, great pitch. Very animated, which is very lovely too. So my question is regarding, are you more of a software or hardware company? Are you guys manufacturing your own hardware? Charging hardware? So yeah, we are more of a software company. We will not be manufacturing the chargers. We will be outsourcing them. And the idea is that we're going to use the open API of the chargers to connect and to use our algorithm.

46:59Yes, so let me just expand on that. Basically, any electric vehicle charger that uses the OCPP, the open charging protocol, we can connect to them and use our services. Okay, great. And a follow-up, who is your target customer going to be? Are you going to be working more with the utilities or other types of companies or end users? Yeah, so that's a very great question. So basically, like I mentioned, our main revenues is going to come from the services we provide to the utility grid. But that's a regulated market. And we don't need to actually reach out to the utility grid. That's done as a pay-as-bid service. So really, our main target customer that we're going to try to reach is power-intensive facilities. And right now, we're trying to focus on large residential complexes with lots of apartments, because we think that's a very accessible market. And it fits really well into our customer profile. And so we'll save money for them. But we're also providing basically, you know, a customized charging experience for the EV users at that facility. I hope that was clear. We can expand on that if you'd like.

48:16Thank you. That's great. Thank you so much for that answer. Hi, guys. It's Maggie. Thanks for that. I agree with Stephanie. That was a very animated pitch. And I like this idea. I'm trying to picture it, though. Would you just be, would you have to work with a battery manufacturer to get the battery, or an integrator to get the battery banks, and then you deploy those to a site, and then using your algorithm, you know, kind of see it as power reserves all over the place. And then, you know, you decide kind of what you need to use when. I'm just trying to figure out, you know, who owns the assets, who, what's your vision for that? Are you going to just sell the software to this? Are you going to provide a package to the customer that includes battery bank, the installation maintenance, and algorithms? Yeah. So, Maggie, thank you for your question. And that's actually one of the main benefits of our business model, because we will be like providing the service. So we'll be installing and providing the power, the facilities with the chargers. So we'll be cutting the cost for all the facilities having to pay for them. So we will be completely outsourcing the chargers and then our batteries, and we will be installing them and paying for them, if that answers your question.

49:40It does. And my follow-up question would be, when are you, do you have a pilot test, or a pilot schedule, basically? I'm kind of interested in how this works in the field. Yeah. So currently, we are developing our beta algorithm. We wanted to have it done by the end of the year. And we are currently looking for partnerships to do a pilot project. We are also in a jumpstart of an organization called InnoEnergy. And we are also in KDH Innovation. So we are looking in Sweden, also to find some partnership there and do like, like you said, the pilot project. Yeah. So currently, we are still looking for it. Okay. And Louis, are you, you mentioned FPL and GE Solar. Are you in the United States? Are you in Europe? Yeah, I'm currently in Barcelona right now, but I did my bachelor's in the US, Florida International University in Miami. And I worked in New York, you know, with GE Solar for two years there. Yeah. So thank you.

50:56Hey folks, this is Remy. Again, thank you for the pitch. And, you know, I agree with both Maggie and Stephanie, really nice one. And the major question I have is really, how much money do you need to get this off and running? Yeah, so that's a great question. We have several scenarios that we have planned on the projections that we need. And I'll be more than happy to share those with you afterwards. It really depends on exactly the type of partnership we're going to have. So if we own the assets, right, like let's say we completely own the electric vehicle chargers, those go between 2000 and 3000 euros per charger right now, depending on the manufacturer. And so let's say a pilot project would have 10 chargers. So it's the cost of those chargers and the installation, plus if they want a battery bank in parallel to those. So it's kind of hard to give you like an exact figure because it's going to depend. Yeah. But it's, let's say, let's say around, you know, 20 to 30,000 for the the equipment itself. Yeah. And for to launch the business, like to finish the algorithm and also expand a little, our team, we're also like in conversations already with a full stack developer.

52:16And yeah, to finish the algorithm, hire the rest of the team and start doing the pilot project, we expect it will be around an initial investment of 250k. Yeah. Cool. And, you know, so I get it that you guys will need to hire, hire more to, to fund the development. But, you know, looking at upfront costs of two to three K per charger, along with installation costs and all the other miscellaneous, what would be the expected payback period based on the software business model that you were mentioning earlier? Yeah. So the payback period, that's, that's, I don't have the exact figure itself, but we, we were looking at, because we did different scenarios, right? We expect up to 4 million euros in revenue if we have 39 facilities installed by 2025. The payback will depend really if we are completely owning the asset or if we're sharing the cost with the customer, we're installing it. So I would say around three years is what we're expecting.

53:36Okay, cool. Thank you. Um, Louis and Martin, thanks for a great pitch. Um, my question, my first question is about this algorithm that you're, that you have been developing and still need to finish up. Um, what exactly are the inputs and the expected output and what it's optimizing for, um, in your, uh, in your novel algorithm? Sure. Uh, so it's done, it's doing several things. Uh, the first thing is it's, well, I'll just maybe I'll tell you like a little bit of a, I'll give you like a story so you can kind of see the idea. Um, let's pretend that you are an employee, um, and you're going to a GE manufacturing plant. So you get there at eight in the morning and you stay there until five in the afternoon. So those eight hours, your vehicles just parked there doing nothing. Um, what we do is we're measuring to see the capacity of all the vehicles that are parked in that facility. And we say, okay, we have, I don't know, one megawatt of power capacity available there. So using that, um, we do two things. The first is we see the peak, the peak, uh, of the demand of the building.

54:43And so we're going to be providing peak shaving for them, uh, in order to lower their power, uh, charges from the utility. Um, and the algorithm, what it's going to be doing is then optimizing that available capacity for bids into the grid. Um, the way that works, um, it's a stochastic optimization problem that I'm developing right now. Um, and it just basically aggregates all of the vehicles available, not only on that one facility, but throughout like, you know, any, any vehicle that's located to our network, um, and bids that to the market during a certain hour, one day ahead. So that's how it works. Uh, and yeah. And just to also, uh, finish what Louis was saying, the inputs. So, um, right now there's, uh, uh, that there's new, these new charges are coming into the markets and, uh, uh, this will help us a lot because just by plugging in to the, to the electrical vehicle, we already be able to, uh, have all the information of the vehicles. So the inputs, uh, is going to be obviously all the electrical vehicles we're going to have. And we're also going to be measuring the frequency of the grid, uh, with meters, uh, so we can do the participation in the frequency markets. Yeah. And, uh, just so you know, that algorithm that, that protocol is the plug and charge protocol. It's just come out in Europe. Yeah. Right. Is that, um, I know the, um, the company new motion just recently announced that they're starting the bi-directional charging very soon in, uh, in the Netherlands. Is that, uh, in the same vein as, uh, are you trying to leverage the same type of, uh, equipment as, as they would, or would you say like that they've just announced that is a special risk for your success? Um, well, we don't view it as a risk.

56:34I would say I'm not too familiar with that exact company, but we do have competitors. Um, so Nuve is a company you might have heard about that's doing bidirectional charging for EV fleets in Denmark, the U S and France, et cetera. Um, in Sweden, uh, there's a company called Tibber that, uh, aggregates electric vehicles located at, uh, uh, private homes and uses that for participation in the market. And you, uh, just a quick aside there, they don't use bidirectional chargers. You can actually aggregate vehicles for participation in reserve markets without bidirectional capacity. Um, so just so you know that, um, and then another competitor we have is power to you. Um, they are doing something relatively similar. Um, but I would say the main differentiating factor between all those companies ourselves is that they are targeting, um, basically the owner of the building and the owner of the vehicle is the same person. So, uh, what we're doing is actually leveraging assets of, uh, different stakeholders. So, um, using the vehicles of employees, for example, to, uh, do, um, power management and peak reduction for the facility and save them money. So the key, the key trick there is that obviously you have to have, uh, a benefit for everyone involved. Um, so what we do is we provide free electricity charging to those vehicle owners and that actually incentivizes them to use our service, even though the benefits of the peak shaving isn't for them. Was that, uh, clear? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks.

58:15I have another question. Um, how many employees do you have right now in your company and what's your planned for, let's say, end of 2022 of how many employees, uh, or how big your team is going to be? And also what, how involved are you going to be in the services that you're going to have offered? I think you already mentioned installation services, there's commissioning, and then what about maintenance and what is your plan to, are you going to have employees from your company do that? Or are you looking to partner with a contracting company to do those services? Okay. So, uh, right now we, it's me and Martin, we're the, the founders of the company. And, uh, Martin mentioned this, but we're actually talking to a full-time developer right now. Um, he, we're in talks with him actually becoming a founding member and he, uh, he's been developing, like he's going to be helping us develop this, uh, you know, this application and all the backend software. And he has about 10, uh, employees that, uh, work for him to develop other, uh, applications. So I would say, uh, that's already pretty much settled. Um, right now we're looking for additional interns, um, to, to help us with, uh, some of the marketing and, uh, the brand, et cetera.

59:32Um, yeah. Um, but yeah, and, uh, but in the end, uh, in 2022, to answer your question, uh, I would say we won't have, uh, uh, uh, that much employees. Uh, I'm talking as, uh, as experience. Currently I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm part-time working in a startup and they also participate in if we can see markets. Um, but, uh, we are just six and, uh, uh, it goes very well because, uh, in the end we are going to just be using our service. Uh, and so we can control it. We can control the algorithm, uh, very easily. And, uh, so I would say we, we will need the full stack developer that Louis was saying, and then we are, we definitely will need some, someone to help us in the sales department and also probably the marketing department and the, in, in, in the finance department. So I can, I would say that in 2022, we will probably have a team of around that number, like, uh, six or seven. And, and, uh, I think that would be very manageable. Okay. And then going back to my question about who is going to be doing the services such as installation and commissioning and even maintenance. Do you see that you would handle that or you would outsource that or have the end user or your partner take care of that? Um, we will, uh, uh, being, be outsourcing, uh, in the beginning, uh, we will definitely be outsourcing every part of it. So the maintenance and installation and, uh, well, and all, all related to that. Uh, but in the future, I would say that we're probably have, we're going to have someone in our team that will understand, um, the maintenance parts. And so whenever, whenever necessary, uh, we will be able to provide that maintenance. Yeah. And, and just to add to that, we're kind of going off solar PV model. That's kind of existed where, um, it really depends on, on the type of project.

1:01:33It can be turnkey or it can be that we own the assets, but, um, eventually we'll have an operation and maintenance, uh, person in charge of, uh, you know, talking to the customers and making sure that everything's working fine. So. Okay, great. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much, um, Martin and the panelists and, and the witness as well for the great pitch. And then any final question. Actually, actually, actually one more, uh, so. Oh, I don't know. It's kind of sounded like I cut out. Um, but if you can hear me, um, if you're outsourcing most, uh, if not all parts of the, uh, actual handling of the equipment, um, servicing and, uh, installation, why not, uh, just license out this algorithm, um, and let the companies actually take care of all the nitty gritty boring stuff. Uh, yeah. So, I mean, that's, that's definitely something that we would consider right now. Uh, the reason we're, we're talking about this is because, um, as for the pilot project, we, we think as we're developing this algorithm and we were doing, uh, the testing, we need to own the initial assets. And so that means that we, we, we have to be able to tinker with them. And, uh, that's why initially we'll, you know, we will, we basically are installing them at a facility, but we are the owners of those assets in the initial stages. Once we have this up and running, like you mentioned, like, you know, that's certainly a business model we might, uh, no consider, but for now, uh, this is kind of what we're going with. So we have full control of those assets and we, you know, anything that may occur due to, you know, changing the parameters and the charging, discharging of the, of the batteries, et cetera, it's on us. So.

1:03:33Yeah. It makes a lot of sense though. Um, but, uh, a good area that you're thinking about, uh, different ways you could pivot into your potential different business models also later down the road. Yeah. It's like, like, like I mentioned, I think it's a, it's a flexible business. Um, you know, in, in the solar industry, sometimes you own the assets, sometimes you share the cost of the, of the, uh, of the, uh, you know, the building of the solar panels and the inverse, et cetera, and you split the benefits over time. And sometimes you just build it and you turn it over to them as a turnkey project. So, um, it's, it's really going to depend, uh, my team in his startup, he, he sees all types of, uh, of deals done with different customers. And it, we're not, we're not putting ourselves to just one model because we understand that every single, uh, client that we approach has different needs and wants. So, uh, we're definitely flexible in pursuing that. So.

1:04:44Great. Thank you so much for that. And with that, we've come to the close of, um, all three startups for their pitch and here's a big round of applause to them. And a huge round of applause to the panelists as well. And before we open up to the floor for, um, um, everyone to join us on stage for any questions and feedback to interact with the startups, maybe we can do one round of consolidating feedback on the panelists. And tell us if you'd like to, um, you know, just unmute yourself to share what are your thoughts about the startups, um, in general and, um, to give some of the, uh, um, comments or advice to them. Sure. Um, overall, all three startups, thank you very much for your pitches. Um, I'd like to, um, um, start with, uh, with Divick, um, super exciting. Um, I think honing in on exactly what your, um, unique selling point is, um, also comparing to the different competitors out there could be key. Um, I think there's a lot of things possible. I am quite sure you, uh, know as well, you mentioned 44 different, um, use cases for the data that's coming out, but really honing down and focusing on, on one exact, um, USP would be, uh, great. And, um, that'd be my, my one point of feedback for you. Um, going on, or, uh, I can open the floor for the other panelists also.

1:06:26I'll go next. Uh, so for Divick, yes, again, great pitch. Um, I thought that was a great way to start this event with your, your pitch. So good job. Uh, your answers were very clear, um, and, and very confident. So, and very, very knowledgeable. So it's very clear that your experience in the industry, 14 years in the experience in the industry is obviously a lot. Um, so you already have proof in the market, you have investors and you have orders. So definitely congratulate you on that. And also you have a creative business model. And so that's my overall feedback and I'm looking forward to, uh, following your growth. And I'll echo Stephanie. I thought it was a great, great pitch. Um, you're definitely, um, a pro and position, you know, your markets, um, I, you know, this is a huge and competitive market. Um, you sold me when you said we didn't oversize the battery because everyone, whoever listens to me on here knows I hate that. So, um, you know, and it's, it's a great thing to size the battery for the right application. And that obviously results in a cost reduction. So looking forward to seeing, you know, how you proceed in this and, um, you know, looking for investors all along the supply chain, um, might be a good idea, which I'm sure you're already doing, but, um, I don't think you're going to have many issues finding investors for this. Thank you.

1:07:50All right. Thank you for the pitch again. Uh, so, uh, on my end, firstly, I echo quite a number of points, um, from both, um, you know, Bruce, Stephanie and Maggie, uh, and Maggie, um, for me, those are, those are most of the positives and they, they got, uh, they got a lot of that covered. So I wouldn't touch too much on that. The few, the few key things that, um, I would touch on in terms of the aspects that I would like to learn more, not necessarily improve, but I think we didn't have too much time to go into those, uh, uh, you know, some of the manufacturing challenges that you might be facing and how you're overcoming them. Um, and you know, uh, at the same time, the competition, I think that's, that's been mentioned. Um, but you know, especially in India, Indonesia, some of the largest two wheeler markets that, uh, anyone outside of China could potentially have a, have an outside chance, um, that the competition there is, is pretty stiff in the, in the two wheeler space. So that, that competitive advantage needs to be extremely clearly spelled out. Uh, and, and those are the only two things that I would say, um, can put, no, no, potentially I would like to find out more. Uh, and that, to be honest, that also means that, you know, as a, as an investor, this is a company that investors would be willing to take a second call or a third call and go a little bit on deeper. So overall, great job. Thank you.

1:09:19Thanks. Thanks everyone. I don't know if, uh, thanks Maggie. Thanks Bruce. Thanks Stephanie. Sorry. And, uh, thanks Remy. Um, I can, um, go on to the next startup, uh, with Rose. Um, also thank you very much for your pitch. I think, um, the fact that you are, um, really in the depth of developing this new novel battery and in, I kind of looked you up on, on LinkedIn. I know that you have a rich history of, uh, really being a key researcher in this, uh, field, uh, will give you a lot of credibility. I think, um, when you mentioned that you are at a six out of 10, in terms of, uh, the development scale of one being on the bench top and then being completely commercially ready, uh, having said that you were a six out of 10, uh, I would love to have, to have heard more, uh, data points, uh, kind of, um, what we can expect in terms of, uh, power capability, uh, energy density, rather than just some qualitative labels, if you will. Uh, and maybe you, you overestimated the six out of 10, but if, if that's actually correct, I would have loved to have heard a little bit more on that. Um, uh, other than that, uh, being very clear about, uh, where you can get in terms of a price point, um, I think it's going to be super key. Um, so when you, when you mentioned $30, uh, per kilowatt hour, being able to have a breakdown of that will really convince, uh, investors, especially if you have a very clear application in mind, uh, that could really, um, yeah, be a game changer. So having that would be, uh, very positive. And I think when you guys are ready, um, you would have not, would have no, um, issues of getting the required funding going forward. So thank you very much.

1:11:14And I'll add on, yeah, great presentation. Um, you know, despite a lot of, you know, we didn't get a lot of the details, but I, I always think that there's, uh, room to play for all chemistries in the space and want to see more equis based chemistries cause they are safer, um, and a little bit easier to manufacture. Um, I do like your strategy of going, you know, in a consumer electronic market to also test and then test it out, prove it and then scale up. Um, my feedback is to just, I, you know, I think I agree. I don't know that you're completely at a six, uh, yet, or even above a five, uh, but just keep going and keep in mind, um, you know, design for manufacturing is always, you know, something that I say all the time. Um, it's not as easy just to drop new chemistries into an existing manufacturing line. It might seem it, but it isn't, but, you know, keeping the manufacturing aspect in mind will also keep your costs down and make you more competitive. Thanks.

1:12:11Hi, Rose. Uh, thank you for your pitch. Of course, uh, you definitely have lots of credibility in your field, which is really a good, strong point. And as I said, this is definitely a unicorn. I know you're just starting off and you're, you know, when you talk about the price points and the qualitative, uh, characteristics are all super high so far. So, um, definitely as you go forward and you'll get more, um, research, then you'll, you'll see where you're at. So right now I know you have, you're looking at pretty much a whole broad spectrum of applications. So as you move forward, definitely, you know, work on zeroing in on your key markets and the key applications that you're going to go after again, rather than looking at the whole spectrum, you know, we really have to start zeroing in at a later stage and then look at your commercialization plan and how that's going to happen. Yep. Uh, well, Rose, I, I, I, I'll preface this. I thought that I would be the only web banker for this, uh, for you. And, uh, I think I'm right. Uh, but, uh, hear me out. Right. Um, I, I think firstly, you have something in your hands. I think you have, uh, as Stephanie, you know, to borrow a phrase from Stephanie, you have a potential unicorn. Uh, but it's not a company that would, I would even remotely think about investing in really because it seems like, um, you are leaving everything to Sunday. And that is to me, uh, um, major critical for it in any business. I fully understand that many scientists and many researchers just want to do the science and technology, um, and leave the headache to someone else. Um, but in, in our experience, it typically doesn't work as well.

1:13:53Uh, you know, and again, to borrow one example from Maggie, you need to design for manufacturing. Uh, at the same time, you need to design for commercialization. You need to, you need to design it for whoever the end customer is going to be. Uh, and even down to the, the macro strategies, like, you know, for how, when you're talking about, okay, small battery storage from cell phones and power banks and talk about moving up from there. So why, why, why start small and move up? Um, and the critical thing is, are those small things actually building towards your bigger product and whatever that product might be, or are they really just distractions? And my, my suspicion is a lot of these things are being left to someone else and that someone else doesn't fully understand, uh, as you do, you know, the expert view of the technology and the science behind it. Um, and that, that to me is, uh, is, it's, it's one of those companies that I think are extremely, um, wasteful if you continue to go down this path. So I would say, if you truly want to build this into a unicorn and bring this technology to the world, uh, I think it's a, it's probably time to, to have a sit down and have a good discussion in Sunday about how should each party contribute and who should be holding the IP, who should be holding anything, you know, all the assets in the company moving forward. Um, and I understand this can be a very difficult discussion and how the stand of a, a web blanket here, but I think is, uh, at this point in the company, we are first product coming in, in six to nine months time. This is about the time that you should start thinking about these things.

1:15:29So I hope that helps. Oh, hi. Thank you everybody for those insightful comments. And yeah, those are well noted. Thank you. Yeah. If I may, I'll, I'll move on to more team and do it. Um, there was a very nice pitch. I really love the energy. Uh, and also frankly, the structure of the pitch, I think you actually touched on all the points that, uh, typical, uh, good investor pitch should have. Um, so yeah, props for that. Um, also I really enjoyed the fact that you were very knowledgeable about different competitors in the space. I think it's always very good. You got a very clear ask in terms of funding, um, and what you were going to do with the money. So that's really good to know. Uh, one tip that I would have, um, we talked a little bit about the different business models and, um, you can be flexible of having a business model. I think it would be great for you to going forward to very, um, clearly define for yourself when, and what contingency contingencies and for what application you want to take to a certain business model. Um, and if it meets those, um, constraints, then be very clear that, okay, we're going to do this A, B and C. Um, I think that could be a very helpful going forward. Uh, other than that, I think, uh, you guys are in a, in a great place and happy to follow you and, um, yeah, good luck with finishing up the algorithm and, and launching your first pilot. Hey guys. Uh, thanks for your pitch. Um, I'm in the utility, so I can, I love, love these, uh, types of, of business models of, um, you know, adding value to the supply chain and utility space. So I'm really just interested to see how you guys come along and, you know, your first pilot and the results of that, and then how it can be applicable to, um, other countries and especially how it can be applicable to, uh, other regulatory markets, because they always obviously throw a wrench in that, but looking forward to following you guys and hearing more when you have a pilot scale. Thanks.

1:17:46Hi, Louise and Martian. It's Stephanie. So again, great pitch. You were very, very thorough and covered all the points, just like Bruce mentioned in your pitch. So that's very helpful. And for an elevator pitch, obviously super, super key. So your, your, your company itself is, you know, not just right on trend, but you know, V to G is definitely a hot topic with a big demand. So overall, I think you're going in the right direction. You, you definitely have a lot of questions that you need to, to ask yourselves and to really, you know, zero in on, you know, your, your business model. And I think that's fine because you're just starting off. So because you're going to be outsourcing a lot, you're going to definitely have to have good partners in place. So definitely take the time to research and select the correct partners that you're looking for. And also, uh, why I asked the question about, you know, how many employees, because it is, it is a big feat of what you were trying to do. You know, if you're go, if you're going to be fronting these projects and you're going to be supplying the hardware, the software, installation services, maintenance, even though you're, you're thinking of outsourcing, you're still going to have to be involved. And so you'll see very, very quickly as you grow, that you're going to need more resources, um, in the operation part. So, um, and again, that that's fine because you're just starting off. You're going to, you're going to see that, um, once you start getting into the operational side of things. Um, and yeah, I know you're starting off in the Nordics, uh, but the, the utilities and the markets in the Nordics are different in other parts of the world.

1:19:24So as soon as you start to expand or when you're going to start to expand, you're going to have, you're going to need some very knowledgeable people in those markets. Um, so yeah, even though you said that you're, you're heavy on, you're mostly a software because you're a software, um, company, because you're dealing a lot within the operations, you're going to have to have lots of really knowledgeable people on the ground. And so that'll come at a, at a later stage when you're going to have to hire these people. Hi, Matthew, this is Remy. And, uh, you know, I think every, every once in a while you come across a business model that could truly change the way businesses do things on a global scale. And I think you guys are trying to hit in that direction that you guys have something, uh, and, and that's, that's a fantastic thing to have. The, the thing to be careful about is that, um, with this kind of ideas, they tend to run out of money sooner rather than later, uh, which is why I had a lot of questions revolving around the financial, the payback and, and, um, and how do you make sure the company continues to be alive, uh, you know, or as long as you need to get this off and running and to make it, make the impact in the world that you really want to make. Um, I would say at this point in time, what I would suggest is to have a, have a, you know, maybe a, a strategic look into the finances. How do you shop either shorten the payback period, own less assets, work with partners, whatever that might be. Uh, but I would say that it's, it's going to be incredibly difficult to get venture capitalists, uh, in to the company. If you're talking about a potential exit in eight years, right? Cause I'm talking about 2025 reform in revenue and then breaking even in, in, in three years times, uh, most fund lives are not that long. Uh, although you could have, uh, uh, uh, hopefully an evergreen sustainability fund, like, you know, uh, UN for example, but those, you, you don't have too many of those as of, as of this point in time. So that would be my, my biggest worry for you guys.

1:21:30Um, and I hope you guys have got that, get it sorted out sooner rather than later. Um, I'm, I'm believing in the team, everything, everything that you have said so far, I'm believing that you guys will have the ability to get the technology out of the way and, and get all those sorted out. So the last thing that's remaining is to make sure that the company actually leave long enough to make that impact in the world. And that's all. Thank you. Uh, thank you. Thank you so much for the feedback. Uh, we really appreciate it. Um, yeah, we're definitely, we're taking our notes of everything you said right now. Um, we're definitely taking it to heart and, uh, you know, just to go, um, just a little, a little point on that Remy. Uh, yeah, we're definitely aware of, you know, the difficulties that it will be for, uh, you know, uh, VCs to invest in a company that would have such a long payback period. But, um, just to clarify what we meant was a three year, three to four year payback per project. So we think we can break even by 2025, 2026. Yeah.

1:22:38Cool. Thank you. That's, that's a lot better by the way. Thank you. Thank you so much, everyone. Um, this one really remarkable again, you know, thanks so much for, for the startups and also amazed how, you know, I think today we had a bit more time per startup, but it feels like we're always running out of time anyways. So, which I think is a good thing because it means there's lots of things to discuss and hopefully, you know, everyone benefits from it. Um, just looking at the time, I think, you know, now is a good time to, if you want to kind of join us on stage, uh, you know, we have like a few minutes left for, you know, interaction, um, you know, it's just an invitation for you to kind of come up, um, ask any questions for the person in startups or, you know, contribute some thoughts, et cetera. So yeah, please, please raise your hand and join us on stage now. We're going to have a few more minutes like that. I think Kaushik is already here. Do you want to get, get us started? Any thoughts or questions? Sure. Thank you very much.

1:23:31That is very informative. A very well conducted session. Uh, Martin, I, I got cut off. I had a couple of calls while you were talking, but, uh, we built a battery lab in China, in India, and we do a bunch of tests for a whole lot of people. We built a few, uh, batteries ourselves, but we're not looking at commercialization, but I can throw open the lab to you. And we have built an algorithm as well. We've kept it open source. So you're welcome to download it, see if it helps you. It gives you a bridge, uh, in any direction that you wish to take and helps you close a few things. So more than happy to share data and take things forward with you. To give you a quick note, we started working backwards on treatment of a lithium-ion batteries to see how we could stop them from toxifying the environment. And we've went backwards to build a better battery without lithium. So to share a quick thought with throws, a zinc ion is a great way ahead. I have a few data points on that as well. I'm more than happy to share that with you. The week we've been following your word for some time. Uh, I hope to see you.

1:24:30I think you're based in Bangalore, if I'm not mistaken. And if we could connect, we have a lot of data that we can share, including infrastructure, setting up stuff and getting things going. So do let me know if we can connect. Thank you so much. Uh, thank you so much, uh, Kashyyyk. And that's super, uh, uh, insightful and interesting. Um, and yeah, we would, uh, be down to, to continue this conversation, like, uh, on a one-on-one basis. If you, uh, would be interesting also share some thoughts and ideas. Likewise, uh, Kashyyyk, I mean, you're not too far from where I live, uh, which is Bangalore. You got, you got that right as well. So yeah, would be happy to connect and, uh, I'll definitely look you up on LinkedIn and probably that's the right way. I mean, that's the easiest way to connect as well. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Now that's very kind to offer this kind of, you know, support and I know there's already, I mean, I looked up some of the profiles. We have like a range of interesting people, you know, from investors, also tech experts, et cetera. So for free to also connect with each other, right? When you have each other's profiles, names, so LinkedIn, I think is, is a good way as well. You know, highly encourage that, um, to keep doing that. Anybody else who has any thoughts or questions that would like to bring up? Otherwise, you know, pretty much on time. So, you know, also we can also wrap it up, but I just want to make sure if anybody has some concrete thoughts or questions, now's a good time to raise your hand. And otherwise, Catherine, we can also kind of close up the session or if anybody else has any thoughts, and of course, raise them as well from the panel. Otherwise, um, I want to do a big shout out to this incredible, first of all, you know, the pictures, you know, thanks so much for, you know, being brave enough. I know it can be sometimes quite daunting to come on a panel like this and have all this, you know, really excellent, you know, panelists on here and it can be, yeah, can be a bit frightening, but I think you did all a fantastic job. And I think you all, you know, told your story. You also answered all the questions, which is, you know, another big feat. So, you know, thank you so much for, for pitching the same for my side, also for the panelists, you know, this wouldn't be the battery done without you. And, and it's, it's always so much fun as well to have these conversations also before and after. So very much looking forward to continue this tradition and future sessions as well. Um, yeah, fantastic. Catherine, do you want to kind of close it up or should we have one more person raise their hand?

1:27:00Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that. Um, I see that Sharif has raised his hand. Maybe we'll just let him know really quickly. Uh, hi everyone. Uh, this is Sharif. Uh, I'm a transportation designer, uh, but, uh, I'm an EV enthusiast. So I have a question. Uh, I have heard about lithium titanate for like, maybe like two years back. Uh, so I was just curious about, uh, that chemistry, uh, anyone next thing we like around that. I thought it is more efficient than lithium-ion. So that's what my question is. I mean, maybe this is one of these things, which sounds like a perfect segue for our future sessions, because we always have these sessions every week and we discuss all kinds of different chemistries and different topics. Um, from my side, I think that's something we can also explore. I mean, I know we could open up this topic, but I know it could also go a long time. Just in the interest of time, I think we're trying to keep our session, but yeah, Sharif, I mean, happy to also connect, happy to connect to LinkedIn as well.

1:28:09We sent you some, you know, reading material, et cetera. Um, but yeah, lithium titanate is definitely one of the chemistries you can use. It has advantages of being quite stable, but also cost can be an issue. So yeah, it's, it's one of the chemistries, but I think it's not really meant to replace lithium titanate. Because it's, it's one of the forms, but it's kind of one of the chemistries, which has its own use cases. Thank you. I will connect you on LinkedIn. So you can have more insights on that. Thank you for that. Catherine, how do you feel about wrapping up the session or you want to bring up some more people or otherwise should we keep it at the time? Yeah. Um, I'm good with bringing up, um, Milos. I see he's raising his hand. Um, if maybe we'll miss a quick comment to add and then we can wrap it up. I was raising him because to answer the star of question, but I can answer it very quickly that lithium titanium, uh, Titanite batteries are, uh, they are faster to charge, but they are, uh, very low dense energy density batteries.

1:29:35So that's the disadvantage and that's the advantage. So there are many chemistries and everybody, uh, is making, uh, uh, battery today. It's a custom made battery for whatever use, uh, application, uh, the, uh, even, uh, custom made even between various automakers or various other applications. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Fantastic. I'm gonna be with that. Um, it's, it's good time to close out the session. So once again, thank you so much to the panelists, Maggie, Bruce, Stephanie, and Remy for your contribution and also to the startups as well. So Vic Martin, and Rose, I hope you guys have, uh, you know, managed to, uh, really get something from this event. Can I have a last question? Can I have a last question? Can I have a last question? Can I have a last question? Yeah, sure, sure. Last thoughts for this. Yeah. Can I know how frequent these sessions are going to be so that I can be part of it?

1:30:45So we have our sessions, um, every Saturday on a weekly basis at 3 PM CET and last for one and a half hours. So, um, this is a plug to, you know, everyone who has not joined our club as well. If you see the little icon, uh, on top with the, with the house, um, that's our club, just feel free to follow it and join us as a member. And you'll be able to receive the notifications on the upcoming events. And usually we have, um, deep dives into topics such as, um, battery chemistries, et cetera, um, recycling, second life. And today's kind of like a special topic for battery then. So yeah, do feel free to, um, follow us and, um, check in every Saturday at 3 PM CET. I hope that answers your question. Yes, yes. Thank you so much. Can I make one comment? Posing comment. Uh, we need those, uh, we need those entrepreneurs like you, like you, especially young entrepreneurs, to commercialize various, uh, technologies and to basically build the businesses in the, uh, in the battery related businesses.

1:32:05Because battery technology is the most important technology for this decade. I absolutely agree with that. Great. Thank you so much, everyone. Uh, I'm sorry. This is dragged on for a little bit, but I hope you're getting the most out of this event. So thank you everyone for being part of this and have a great rest of the day. Oh, and a final plug to, um, all the panelists and startups, um, here on stage. Please do feel free to follow them on LinkedIn. Um, to stay in touch with what they're doing and feel free to connect with the startups as well. After the event, um, uh, if you're interested to talk to them on one on one basis. Thank you all. to the event if you're interested to talk to them on one-on-one basis. Thank you all. Have a great day. Bye-bye.