Battery Insiders Reflection - Battery Basics

0:00Transcript

0:00Welcome to Battery Insiders, your podcast providing you insights in the fascinating world of batteries. Hosted by Bhavya Jha and Simon Engelke. And we're back. Welcome, everybody, to this next iteration of Battery Insiders. How are you doing, Simon? Doing well. Yeah. It's a warm, summery day. You know, people taking off, going to the holidays. Yes, I imagine. So, yeah, it's an exciting time. So I think, you know, it's also for us, we have one more session and before our one week break of this podcast as well. So, you know, let's make it a, you know, have a good time for the last two before the break. Absolutely. We do need a break. Um, it is not quite 100 degrees here, but it feels like 109 or 110. So it's very hot. Um, I would say this is abnormal and that, ha, here's your proof of climate change, but it actually does usually get this hot in Memphis. So you're feeling the heat. I have to admit it's always, yeah, tough to, to, to know what this means in degrees, but, um, Celsius, but I, I can relate.

1:19It's going to be hot. So we're not that hot. We're here yet, but I think maybe now we're going to have some hot topics. Hot topics. Yes. And we're feeling pretty basic. How, um, what'd you think about our battery basics conversation? I really enjoyed it. You know, with, um, Basim Barak, um, he did a great job. I think, you know, we're entering the session, you know, he was mentioning has been, you know, doing some of these, um, yeah, educational, um, this kind of lectures, et cetera. And yeah, I think he really tried to provide like a nice overview. And of course, you know, our, I think our audience and our panelists didn't disappoint to really, you know, have some really interesting, you know, follow-up questions and like, you know, diverging us and all kinds of different topics again. And, but I think it was just, you know, it was, it's really important of these discussions, you know, and trying to, you know, get everyone on the same playing field again, you know, and, um, understand, you know, what are, what are the most important things to understand to build on it.

2:15And I think it was a nice refresher in the way. Probably could have something we could have done earlier thinking about it. I think it has been our 28th session before we spoke about battery basics, but I think it's a, it was a good thing to do. And it's probably something we can also maybe do in some intervals again to, to bring everyone up to speed. Yeah. I think as we get new, um, listeners tuning in, it's a good time. It's a good thing to do, uh, these basics. Yeah. I was thinking about that, like, huh, it's basics. Maybe we should have done this earlier, but doing it throughout, I think at least allows some new folks to kind of get caught up. And I think it actually works out well. Um, it's also interesting to hear from different people and kind of just get a take on what's basic for them. Um, everyone's entering this conversation at different levels of understanding about batteries and the issues around them.

3:09Um, I definitely have felt that in the past. And so it's, uh, always nice to hear what other people find basic. And if it's something that you don't know, well, then you maybe need to go more basic, um, as you self-educate. It also kind of relates to something we've talked about in the past and about the value of education and continuous education with batteries because it is new. And then again, for it's been around at the same time, but it's, you know, some parts are understudied. Some parts are better understood. Um, industry has their own perspective on things, policymakers likewise. And so I think just the variety of perspectives that you get on batteries, their efficiencies, their effectiveness, um, why things work the way they work, which chemistries are better than others, uh, is all really interesting. And that's, it's, I think it's when we can boil it down to these types of conversations that we really understand, um, kind of the lay of the land, because I think when we get really wrapped up in our conversations with each other, um, and as has happened on some other clubhouses, which are really great, but just so specific to one specific aspect of batteries, it's really hard to like keep the big picture in mind.

4:21And so I think I'm really, I was really glad that we had this conversation, uh, on Saturday. Absolutely. And I think it's also a good reminder again, you know, to, to, to really trying to come onto the same page, right? I think that it goes a bit also in your, one of your favorite topics, I know from standardization. Um, because if you think about, um, if you think about, you know, I think I asked also this in doing the session, you know, like what is a cycle, right? Like what does count as a, as a charging and a discharge cycle? Um, especially if you use, you know, like, I mean, of course, if you're in a laboratory setting, right, it's quite obvious for people. So you have, you know, you have, you want this charge and charge and that's, that's quite simple, but then you closely go to the real world. And, you know, you get like, if you think about like a user pattern, you know, where people would kind of, you know, use it a bit, then charge it a bit again, like use it.

5:09Like, you know, I mean, also like back and forth, like having more like drive cycle behavior, like real world behavior, it gets more complicated, you know, then there's different approaches. I think also our conversation startup, I seem, was also mentioning that, that, um, you know, I've seen different things in different industries, like different ways people, you know, counted. Is it like you just add them up altogether. And, but of course that's also has a different implication if you do small charges versus like complete discharges. So all of these things have like, you know, an impact on, on, on the battery. That's a, I think a rather simple thing, but then if you go into state of charge or state of health, um, especially the state of health question, right. That's something which is also as we did not really that, you know, did well understood or like, you know, not really that well, um, defined in a way. And the definition can be quite simple, right?

5:53Like what's your remaining charge compared to your charge in the beginning. But, um, if you didn't think about, you know, um, what, like, you know, what are the real implications for like, you know, is it more like the power output? Is it more the capacity? Shouldn't it be more about like, you know, how much, um, let's say life is left for whatever application you want to use it for all these kinds of questions, which I know, um, I was just like, you know, through another work, we do like one of the projects we are doing, we've been thinking about this a lot again, and it's something which always comes back and it's, it's so basic and it's so simple in a way in theory, but then when you really go into like, you know, the, you know, like the depth of it and you were trying to truly understand it and truly make it, you know, I'm approachable. Um, that's something which is often gets more complicated.

6:40I think what people expect. So I really liked this kind of battery basics or like more, um, you know, like some fundamental questions to try and get on the same page. So to make sure we speak about the same thing, rather everyone having a, you know, like a different understanding of, of same topics we're talking about. It's funny. You just said all of these great things, um, and such insightful comments. And the only thing I took from that was he thinks I'm standardization girl. So yeah, I do toot that horn. Um, but I think it, it's really important, right? I mean, standardization is driven by our understanding of what's standardized and that's driven by definitions. And like you said, those are so kind of nebulous. I think we have to, I think people actually already do this. I don't even think we need to say we have to like people, but for the most part, usually have already acknowledged, right? Like we don't know everything about batteries.

7:38We, it is all in the works. And as far as defining these things, those, those definitions have been evolving. I mean, just, I mean, this industry has been around for decades, um, maybe lithium-ion more so. And it's like emphasis on car battery EVs and, you know, all of this, um, has been a more recent later, like early two thousands. Um, but I think it's really interesting that even in my own, what, two, three years of being in this, um, environment and in this industry, I have come across a number of definitions and whether it's like when you're talking to someone or in an academic paper, you're always going to find variants. And I think that poses very interesting questions and it can be frustrating as we go through this process of transition. But I think ultimately it pushes us to think harder about how do we define state of health or, you know, similar terms and concepts that really will impact how we use batteries and how we determine my other favorite thing, their end of life management.

8:47So it really comes full circle. Doesn't it Simon? It always does. And, um, and that's also one of these things where, um, where I think it's, it's also really important to have this conversation with different lenses, right? Because I think, you know, I mean, maybe at some point you understood your language of your discipline, right? If you come from the chemistry perspective and from engineering perspective, physics perspective, but then you can also come from the legal perspective. You can come from the business perspective and all of them have their own kind of like battery basics, right? Maybe for someone who works in, you know, like in battery safety, it's a session actually going to come up in August again, which I'm quite looking forward to. Um, which also thinks of this session because something which came up in the session and, um, you know, then maybe for you, it's like all the, you know, health codes and all this, you know, that's your basics, right?

9:36Like, you know, your ISO standards and all these kinds of things. Um, for someone else in chemistry, you know, the, the basic would be like all the different electrolytes and the, you know, the polymers you can use and the solvents, you know, that's your battery basics for someone material science. It might be, you know, all the NMC's LFP, what all these things mean, you know, the different cathodes and all the materials. So everyone has, I think also their kind of like, you know, idea of what the battery basics are. And I think what I really enjoy, right. It's like once you kind of enter also these different spheres and kind of understand the different perspectives on a similar topic. And I think that's something which is quite powerful and also quite important because everyone always brings down lens and that's, that's normal. But I think the moment we also kind of try and understand things from a different perspective, the video helps us, I think, to, to communicate more effectively with each other and also have these, you know, important discussions, which are really needed to address some of these topics from a really like holistic standpoint.

10:31Absolutely. And with that, what is next week's topic? Next week, we have the topic of Fit for 55. So this is related to the European guidelines, you know, the European, like, you know, like, you know, the new regulations or like the new, I mean, I'm missing your word right now, like template essentially, how to, how to fulfill the Paris Agreement in Europe, which includes, you know, the decarbonization of transport, but also many other things. And I think it's going to be an interesting session to, to talk a bit also about some of the challenges, some advantages, and also, especially how can we actually implement these kind of measures. And, um, yeah, I think it's going to be a. Engaging session, which is going to be our last session again, before we do our one week break, like our whole week holiday break is going to be our 30th session going to be a week off. And, um, yeah, also maybe just one quick thing, if you're interested to learn more about all these, you know, topics from battery basics, but also all in depth topics, you know, maybe a quick plug as well to the BatteryMBA, which is currently open for enrollment. And I'm just saying it because we have just been, we have actually just completed our, or lined up from, from lecturers. We announced it this week, which is super exciting. And, um, also we have some incredible people joining us actually have been interviewing people all week and very excited for, for the people joining. So if you're interested to join, I know a few of the listeners actually have been, um, joining. So, you know, just want to highlight this as well. That's awesome. Thanks for the plug. And I'm looking forward to our conversation next week. Ciao. Bye.