Battery Insiders Reflection - Utility-Scale Mobile Energy Storage System

0:00Transcript

0:00Welcome to Battery Insiders, your podcast providing you insights in the fascinating world of batteries. Hosted by Bhavya Jha and Simon Engelke. And welcome back, everybody. Welcome to all of our listeners and those of us who are new and old. We have old family. We have continued to grow our Battery Insiders family, it seems. How is everything going? Today I've got Simon here with me. And as per usual, we are here to talk to you about the weather reporting live from New York and somewhere in Germany, I think. Is that right, Simon? That's correct. It's rainy and gloomy over here. Oh, no. What was it over there? So it's like nice, brisk fall weather. Sun's out. New York is not hot anymore. The heat is not trapped here. Having just gotten through a summer here, I can tell you this much. The city's great, but I can't do it in the summer. I, especially every day walking out by Rockefeller Center, I was like, I thought this was supposed to be like my movie moment.

1:17But it's not. I'm a happier person this time of year. Can you tell? I'm glad. It's probably a bit inverse over here. But I guess another, the one link would be our speaker of the day or like our conversation starter of this month's session is also in New York. And I guess that's a bit of a potential link. So I guess he might be as happy as you about the weather change. And maybe also his batteries are more happy to not be grilled anymore in the summer. Yes, absolutely. Talk about temperature control and our needs for that. We just had a fantastic session and, you know, had a great live conversation about utility scale storage and kind of the direction that it's going in, the factors that we need to be considering when we think about, you know, really installing these types of storage facilities and what connectivity and what cost and what, you know, really ensuring like the sustainable lifecycle of these systems can consist of.

2:18And so, yeah, what did you think about the conversation? Yeah, that was interesting. It's a bit of a, you know, I think it's one of the topics maybe you don't really think about. I mean, it's often think maybe more about small scale or very mobile batteries like, you know, Vs and tow wheelers and all of these other electric, you know, planes even now as you know, occasionally spoke about in past podcasts. But, you know, talking about something more utility scale but still movable, I think was a different, interesting angle. And I think I was also quite intrigued about the pricing structure and maybe how these things can be quite similar. I think you gave some good explanation of this, you know, thinking really thinking about the full system cost and integration of your batteries in buildings and things like that. Land usage and all these kinds of things. So I think it was a, yeah, it was, I think, a different use case, interesting use case, but like probably a bit more in the niche area, I think.

3:08But at this point, at least something we haven't really come across before. But I can see how this has its use case and applications. And, of course, you also explained that he has been doing it now over six years and, of course, also now more heavily maybe on the V charging side. So I think it's interesting to see that these use case exist and then, you know, how people, you know, build a business in these different applications. What do you think? Yeah, it sounds like, you know, the framing of his company, Power Edison, is that they're kind of the Uber of the energy storage industry, right? Like keep things, they provide power on wheels, pun intended. But I think it's a very, it's definitely interesting because right when I think that, oh, you know, we've covered all the topics in our sessions, then we talk to someone who's creating like the mobile storage on wheels concept. And it's like, okay, well, the innovation, I mean, the innovation continues.

4:05And I think it's just one high level refreshing to hear that new ideas are constantly kind of coming up in the industry and also on our radar. And then, yeah, I just think that it's an interesting business case. You know, you don't, one of the things I think Power Edison talks about is that they don't have to deal with the subsidies and kind of the bureaucracy and paperwork that go into some of the larger utility scale storage facilities that are, you know, installed in one place and not mobile. And I think that that offers kind of a kind of a kind of a kind of a benefit for this type of technology, right? Like a quicker way to enter the market and kind of permeate the market. But I am, I think for a second, I was probably still wrapping my head around like, so how do they get the power everywhere? Because I'm coming off of a summer and a year of learning about, you know, grid connectivity and how do we really make the grid more renewable?

5:09And that's kind of where I've been, what I've been thinking about in terms of like electricity storage. So I would say this was definitely eye-opening. Yeah. And I think that's also just going to be an interesting conversation also in the past. I mean, not so much on the podcast, but also in the BatteryMBA about, you know, the grids of the future and are they more, you know, centralized, decentralized. And also case studies on that, but also some natural energy in the past. And I think, you know, I think, yeah, it's, it's, as you say, right, it's a question kind of how you, how you build these structures. And there's, I think two, two ways, right? Like one, you have areas where there isn't any grid available right now. So then of course, you know, you have to think about, are you building something centralized? Are you building something, you know, decentralized? And then you have some other ones and you think about, you want to, you know, how do you adapt them now maybe to the renewable world, right?

5:52So you mentioned where there's electricity coming from, is it like solar, is it wind? And I think, I think another use case you also mentioned was, I think, wind turbines, if I don't remember correctly. So there's also something I can see, right? You would put a container there, you have like a wind farm, you kind of use this buffer, you store there, then you move it over, maybe store some lines. But yeah, I think, I think that's really where batteries come into play, right? It's a buffer, right? It's a storage, but they're not for like, you know, seasonal or something storage. So it's really about a few hours and anywhere where you just can make sense, which could be, you know, recharging, could be any buffer of kind of, you know, changing other renewable energy sources as a solar and wind. I think this is a place where I could see something that could work. And of course, they have to compete. I mean, the interesting thing is they have to compete against real batteries on wheels, which will be vehicles, right?

6:44Rather than containers. And then, but they're a bit smaller, but still vehicle to grid, right? Could probably be quite interesting there to see how this be combined or how this could maybe also play a role against each other a bit. But then also thinking proper stationary, right? Like thinking about, yeah, like, you know, this really big, and we have seen it also in the news, right? Like you have these really big installations of batteries as grid installations, which also sometimes are still containers. It kind of actually makes me think, should we be driving around with rooftop solar panels on our cars? But... You wonder what there's a startup in Mene called Sonomotor, so it does exactly that on the train. Wait, really? Oh my gosh. Well, sounds like we need to talk to them after. Bring them up next. No, that's interesting. Well, and here I thought I was getting innovative. See, just when you think it's all done, there's a new idea, but then you realize somebody else is doing it.

7:40Well... I think that's for sure out there. And I think maybe one other thing is, so just people wonder why they should listen to this episode, I think. I find quite interesting that one is on the pricing. I think kind of, you know, there's the idea to be price parity, but how would you reach the price parity? I think there's some great insights there. But then another thing is, so compared to stationary, stationary versus this kind of mobile stationary. And then another thing is, but also interesting, monitoring, because often we think for battery monitoring, it's a question I asked about how do you, you know, what do you do about battery monitoring? And, you know, usually we think about it as, you know, you want to monitor how the battery behaves over use. But here, they also really think about monitoring the transport, because you have to move these things around. And, of course, electronics and all of these different parts have to be, you know, moved in an accurate and proper way.

8:31And, you know, be as good after as before or have to be fixed, et cetera, if need be. So I think it's also interesting that they, of course, have to look into that as well, which, of course, is also another thing. We say we use these kind of points, but I think, yeah, from a utility perspective, it's interesting, these large scale batteries. How do you monitor them in transport? And I think that there are some solutions in this case. Very interesting. And, yeah, I think those are definitely, I mean, those continue to be pivotal questions about the different technologies we discuss on our podcast, you know, the pricing. And it's very interesting where and how, like, the local market does affect the pricing and kind of like the marketing schemes that the different technologies end up taking on, at least the ones that we introduce on our podcast here. But, yeah, so I guess kind of looking forward now after wrapping this one up, any thoughts on who we may be listening from next, a little teaser for next time?

9:35Or should we keep it a surprise? Well, then we can tease a bit. So the next episode is going to be about the recap, in a way, from the Battery Day, which, of course, from Battery Societies, annual big event where we bring lots of people together. This year, it's quite long. This year's battery is 12 hours in length. So there's a lot to be covered. And essentially, we're going to do a nice recap with some of the moderators as well. And, of course, hopefully many attendees of the session, but also anybody who missed it and is curious to get the highlights on it. So hopefully this will be a nice episode. I know there's a lot of interesting content covered in the event. So hopefully there's some interesting content to be shared as well from that. Sounds good. Hope all of you are able to join us. And if not, we'll be sure to share the insights with you right here at Battery Insiders. Thanks, Barbara.

10:22Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Have a good day.