Battery Insiders Reflection - North America's lithium supply chain

0:00Transcript

0:00Welcome to Battery Insiders, your podcast providing you insights in the fascinating world of batteries. Hosted by Bhavya Jha and Simon Engelke. And welcome everyone, welcome to our first podcast of this year, 2023. And it's our 58th session here, and we have been looking at this fascinating topic of the North America's lithium supply chain. But before we get into it, Pavia, how are you today? How's everything? We are doing well, Simon. I'm back in New York. I'm refreshed after a little trip to Colombia where, you know, I happen to actually go fishing in, what do you know, mangroves. For those who don't know, mangroves are also a type of tree. They create a unique ecosystem. And there is a niche community in Colombia that conducts like sustainable fishing in mangroves. And so I got to really get down and dirty. Like straight up, we were in like wooden canoes, like using very interesting techniques to capture sardines, which then became the bait so we could get the crabs, which we then prepared ourselves for lunch.

1:16A very unique experience. And I'm sure you did not expect me to say all of that just because our interviewee today is from mangrove lithium. But that's where we're at right now. And that's where that's what mangroves makes me think of. But after today's conversation, I'll also think about lithium. And so I would really love to dig into that with you, especially given how important the lithium supply chain, lithium pricing and all of the dynamics around that entire like different eco battery ecosystem is playing out right now and mangrove lithium's role in it. So what did you think? I thought we had a really interesting conversation. Absolutely. And I love, you know, your introduction to this topic. I mean, not many people can say they have been fishing with mangroves to go to mangroves lithium. But I think that's where we are. And as you said, it's a fascinating topic. You know, we have been looking at cathode production in previous podcasts. We have been looking at recycling and different technologies and different production techniques.

2:21But the lithium refining was one of the topics we haven't really looked at so far. And I think it was a fascinating deep dive in this topic. We had, I think, even discussion about lithium mining before. But lithium refining being, of course, one of these steps being really essential to make sure we get, you know, our lithium out of whatever form it is, you know, be it fresh version material from, you know, rocks or slack, et cetera, or from recycled batteries or, you know, different formats and then going through the process to make it, you know, usable for our cathode production and then going to the battery side. So I think it was fascinating. I think a lot of, you know, interesting aspect on it, especially on, you know, the different sources of lithium, which I think was super relevant. You know, I think main two ones out of, you know, hard rock and lithium brines, which I think, you know, the two main ones probably people talk about.

3:14But there's, of course, also the topic of direct lithium extraction. Interesting, you know, we have seen some new developments from, you know, out of water and then clay as well. So I think some interesting one. And of course, also the topic of recycled batteries and, you know, how all of these topics have their own kind of processes usually and how they, you know, work on something which could make it easier to get it out of it. No, absolutely. Absolutely. I, you know, am thinking about for those who are listening and, you know, kind of lost in all things lithium. Nobody really pre-pandemic had predicted that the price of lithium would really shock up. It was always trending down. And, you know, there wasn't really that concern about the security of raw materials as far as the technology and processing, like processing processes went. They were only advancing and with the hope that this would help bring down the price as well. And so pre-post-pandemic, we've seen this uptick in the price of lithium.

4:20And that's really had to do with the scarcity and lack of security around the actual, like, acquisition, the supply chain of the raw material. And so mangrove is doing that really interesting thing. And, you know, Simon, you just elaborated on the processes that they are bringing on board and making normal, are normalizing so that we can bring the price back down again. They're tackling the technology. They're tackling the process because the raw material has been, has, you know, we've seen, we've seen a decrease in availability. And I think, of course, the recycling part always speaks to me because that was my original niche in batteries. And I'm really excited to see how they scale and really what they, how they maybe change even the landscape in North America. You know, they're based in Canada. We do have a few recyclers popping up, rather many, many of whom have been featured on our podcast before. And I think they, they have like a really interesting and unique value proposition that I'm hoping, fingers crossed for them, that they're able to really scale and find more strategic partnerships to embed themselves in this industry and space.

5:36Absolutely. And I think, yeah, the topic of scale, of course, being a very relevant one or something we spoke about. And, you know, definitely there's a lot of earlier stage also approaches out there. And it's interesting to hear, you know, the progress that they've made so far. And as you say, you know, there's, it's, it's, it's, it's a longer journey as well. And it's, it's interesting to see, you know, the different stages someone has to go through, the learnings they take from it. I think also interesting, you know, what you, what you mentioned about the, you know, the, the, the cost developments, and of course, also looking at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance, you know, survey, which was released also not too long ago. And, you know, showing that, of course, we have the first time a price increase, you know, and for, for batteries since pretty much, I think the last few decades, right? So it's, it's quite interesting there as well to see this price increase.

6:23And of course, there's, you know, different topics, but of course, the raw material being one of the really key ones here and finding, you know, technologies to kind of mitigate that for the future to make these supply chains more resilient. I think it's very important and also more localized, which of course is topics for the Inflation Reduction Act. You know, that's, that's, that's also part of this idea, I would say for the US or North America in general. Yeah, I'm sure. I imagine that the work of mangrove lithium, as well as its competitors would qualify it for the domestic, the domestic aspect of the regulations outlined in the IRA. And so this is definitely a space to keep an eye on. I coincidentally was asked about this very question just last month. And, you know, I guess I'm glad we talked about it eventually, but it definitely would be helpful that, and I'll be passing on this information as well. And so for those of you listening, check lithium prices, it's changing.

7:24And, you know, it's an interesting trend to analyze, especially given the interest, the space that we're interested in batteries, because it's so obviously so critical. And I think mangrove lithium joining us really helps shed light on that matter. And so I hope that each of you have an opportunity to listen to the podcast and learn a little bit more about lithium pricing and refining here in North America. Absolutely. And I think, yeah, let's look out for that as well. And how, you know, what kind of other topics we can find around it. So with this, I think, you know, let's wrap it up for the day. And I think, yeah, we can look forward to a really exciting 2023 covering lots of different topics. Let's see what we have covered. You know, last year we have covered everything from cathode production and recycling and different technologies and lithium metal and all kinds of interesting topics around it. So very curious to see what we're going to have this year.

8:18If you're interested to actually come on the podcast, please get in touch. We're always interested, you know, to hear from you. Also any suggestions you might have, but of course, also if you think of anybody you would love to hear from, or you want to speak yourself, please get in touch. We're always really curious to hear that as well. Fantastic. All right. See everybody next time. See you then. Bye-bye.