Battery Insiders Reflection - Natural nano silicon as a battery anode resource

0:00Transcript

0:00Welcome to Battery Insiders, your podcast providing you insights and the fascinating world of batteries. Hosted by Bhavia Chah and Simon Engelke. Hello, hello. Welcome back, everybody. It's Bhavia and Simon back with you again on another episode of Battery Insiders, here to discuss with you the topic of our 64th session of Battery Revolution, focusing on nanosilicon and its value in the EV battery space and why it's really important for batteries and what the upcoming changes are in that technology. Simon, how are you? How is everything going on your end? It's all good. And yeah, definitely a fascinating bit of a nerdy session, talking about some of the details we've been somewhere or some of the components of the battery. But of course, all of the battery components are important. And the anode side, of course, we know that people like to use silicon, at least as an additive, because it can increase your capacity and it can increase the range and all of these good topics.

1:18But of course, we also know silicon can be a bit challenging as well, at least the higher percentages because of expansion, you know, 400% increase, etc. So all of these fun topics. But yeah, this wasn't too much a topic because I think people know silicon is interesting. But here, I think the conversation with Andre and Jake was more about are there other sources for some of these nanomaterials? So here, you know, people want nano silicon for a couple of reasons. At least some of them are interesting. Of course, also challenging with that. But yeah, they found like a natural way to get these with their startup IONIC Mineral Technologies. Yeah. And I hadn't really heard about IONIC before. And it sounds like they're doing really interesting work as a vertically integrated company that not only produces silicon, but also owns the source from which they're producing it. The Halloway site, I believe, is what I learned about on this, like you said, very detailed discussion.

2:23But yeah, I guess 64 episodes in, we are really down to the nitty gritty when it comes to parts of the battery. And yeah, that was really interesting to hear about what's happening, why silicon is really important. Obviously, as a big picture person, I've thought about, you know, batteries and range anxiety. And it's really interesting to learn that like around three to 10 percent of batteries are currently include three to 10 percent of the battery right now is some type of silicon. And with more silicon and potentially that which can replace graphite, we can, you know, extend range, capacity. And yeah, I didn't really know much about those shortcomings that were discussed as well. So, you know, it can silicon tends to swell up in the battery over time, and that usually diminishes capacity of the battery. And this nanosilicon really yields an opportunity to make longer battery life last longer. And I think that those are some of the interesting tidbits that I got from the conversation with Andre and Jake.

3:32Yeah. And I think it's interesting, right, because, yeah, again, as you mentioned, there's a couple of different numbers out there in industry, also what people are using. And what I found interesting about their approach was not because often we have, you know, someone who comes up with showing us maybe some more reporting, let's say some really interesting property or like a really interesting result, right, like a measurement result. People would be in the lab and they would develop like something and they would say, look, I got this really interesting battery because maybe it's energy dense or faster charging or potentially more safe or whatever it might be, right? People would come with this battery property and would then do their claim and their story and trying to build maybe a business around that. In their case, I think it was a bit different, right, to say, look, you know, we say the market is, well, there's definitely a market trend to use silicon. I mean, I'm not supposed to qualify it, as you mentioned, and people want the scalable sources, right?

4:23And there's, of course, we know there's other approaches, also with CBD, and we kind of can design these nanosilicons. But there's some challenges with scale-ups. So their approach is saying, look, we don't really have to maybe start proving that, you know, silicon is relevant. That's already shown. Our main thing is, can we get it from a natural source to scale it up faster and get higher quantities, right, in a cost-effective way? So I think it's interesting. It's a different approach, right, where taking something rather than proving, let's say, technology, more looking at we want to find a different source than what is restricted today. So I think it was an interesting approach as a startup to take this route, this avenue compared to others. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And that reminds me that one of the things they didn't mention is the solution that they have put on the market, their unique proposition to silicon, this nanosilicon, from this naturally occurring source, is that it does not require retooling.

5:20And so that makes it, you know, like from a startup and, you know, entrepreneurship and like success, possibility, the possibility for success is definitely higher because it's kind of working with the framework and the technology as it exists already. And so hopefully IONIC is able to kind of really break into the market and ramp up this type of technology and make it and scale it with ease because it doesn't require changing the batteries as they are now necessarily. It just requires taking the initiative to replace parts of the battery with this nanosilicon. Yeah, for sure. And I think, yeah, I mean, it's interesting to be seen, right, like how competitive is it then and things. And I think it was also interesting that, again, with this approach, really focusing more, let's say, on the material and getting material and then properties, et cetera, versus saying, look, you know, we want to prove it maybe like in larger cell formats or full cell and things. So I think they have been, you know, more focused on the material than maybe on the battery testing, which again, interesting approach.

6:26And at the end of the day, right, it also has to work well on the battery. So I think that's then interesting for them to see if they can get, as they mentioned, right, can they get some of the customers to do this testing for them essentially? Is there enough demand drive, right? That there's enough? Because, of course, at the start, that's the ideal scenario, right? That you get your customers investing all of this, you know, time, money into doing that versus then you have to prove that. So I think there's still quite a few things to figure out. But I think it's definitely what I like about this. And I think they said this as well, right? Like to be commercial, you have to scale. That's the key thing. And maybe in some of their customers, you mentioned or they mentioned they were more caring, let's say, about a scalable process and scalable material versus having one material which is super, you know, incredible, but they cannot really scale up that much.

7:11So I think that's kind of the approach they're taking there. Well, definitely a player to keep an eye on and keep on your radar as we see how the space continues to evolve. And, yeah, it was a very interesting discussion. I clearly learned a lot. Seems like you did, too. And hopefully those listening are able to learn a little bit about nanosilicon from here, from our discussion and, yeah, be a little bit more in touch with that space and how it changes as the technology continues to evolve. Well, with that, those of you listening, we hope you'll join for our next session. Our 65th session will be here in a couple of weeks. And as usual, the recording will also be available here on Spotify, Apple Music and wherever you listen to your podcast. So we hope you will join us then and be in touch if any topics or questions battery related come to mind. We're happy to explore those on future sessions. Thanks.

8:10Bye.