Battery Insiders Reflection - Fit for 55

0:00Transcript

0:00Welcome to Battery Insiders, your podcast providing you insights in the fascinating world of batteries. Hosted by Bhavya Jha and Simon Engelke. Welcome back, everybody. How's it going, Simon? Very well. It's a nice summer day in Munich. How about you? Yep, likewise. Nice and warm. Very warm. But I guess that's appropriate given the news of the week with the IPCC report that dropped. Speaking of reports and goals, our conversation about the new Euro deal was also pretty interesting. Got a bit heated at times, no pun intended. What did you think? Yeah, I really enjoyed the session. I think we had people from different spectrum, and I think that's quite refreshing as well to have that and talk about topics from different lenses maybe as well. So I mean, if a recap was a session on talking about 50 for 55, so we know these new regulations coming from TPU, proposed regulations related to essentially get us ready for carbon emissions for 55% by 2030, aligned with Paris Agreement and from the European Union.

1:29And yeah, I mean, of course, one big thing is the requirement for, I think, was it 100% non-emitting vehicles by 2035, which of course a big one and charging, et cetera. So this was all really, I think, really exciting. Actually, one thing which we didn't know at the time, but I saw also the recent announcements from the US from the Biden administration to have 50% electric vehicles by 2035, which is also very exciting because it ties into some of our previous conversations. But yeah, so I think I really enjoyed this kind of discussion on policy technology. I think it was a lot about these topics as well. Like, you know, where are they going to be the, what's like, you know, the most important one? And of course, it's all needed. But I think it was a nice, healthy discussion about many topics related to how to, you know, incorporate regulations in Europe, how to get Europe, you know, how to reduce emissions in Europe, but also globally as well, which was great as well.

2:27How about you? Well, I think the first thing I thought of was, wow, these are some pretty aggressive numbers. Not to say that those aren't necessary, but, you know, my question was, how's like feasibility? And the conversation definitely, you know, dug into that. And our speaker also spoke about, is it chicken or the egg? Like, are we going to encourage people to get more cars and, or, you know, transition to electric? And then we have the infrastructure, how, basically, when is the infrastructure going to kick in? Because we almost like need that infrastructure before we can really push for this transition. Um, and I think that, you know, that's always in the works, but I guess this was also a Euro-specific conversation. Um, and I just feel like generally my pulse on it, and I find Europeans actually feel otherwise, is that Europe is ahead of us, um, in, in the game. But I think every time I speak to a European person, they're always like, well, it sounds like you guys are doing something different in the US.

3:32And are we actually really that ahead of you? So I think perspective, perspective can be a funny thing. Um, I also, I'm curious, uh, if we're going to be able to actually like keep up. I don't think, I find it interesting that one thing that came up was like, oh, the only car manufacturers really prepared for the transition are Volvo and Volkswagen. Um, that was just slipped in somewhere in there. And you hear about all these other car companies, BMW, Porsche, uh, Ford planning to go all electric. And so it makes me wonder like, what are the, what are the shortcomings in their plans to transition? I don't know, maybe a topic for another time, just like delving into breaking down different car manufacturers, uh, plans for transition, if they've even been that transparent about it. But those are a few of the thoughts that I had walking away from that conversation. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think it's, but at least I think also, I mean, you know, it's not law yet, right?

4:35So it's like, you know, it's a, essentially it's, you know, it's like the latest slate of proposals and policy initiatives, but I think it speaks quite a clear message, right? And I think by now, essentially every automotive, you know, realizes, okay, this is not going away anymore. I think there's been a lot of pushback for a while. We're seeing from, from OEMs to, you know, to, again, some of these measures, some, you know, not, as you said, some have been more progressive than others, but I think not every automotive or OEM has been understood that this is happening. I think now they do. I think we have seen so many announcements also similar in the U.S., for example, right? I think the moment essentially there was this, you know, what is it called? Not the directive, but essentially, you know, when the Biden administration was doing this announcement on electrifying, you know, like that 50% of cars have to be electric sold after 2030, when you could see, right?

5:23Like Ford and other companies going directly say, of course, you know, we're big supporting and things. And I think that's always like, everyone wants to be the winner, right? And I think the winning narrative is the one people would like to be associated with. I think, you know, in some way it doesn't really matter, even though what other people have been doing in the past, some people, like some companies definitely have to catch up to do it. We can see it, right? I mean, all sorts of battery sources, et cetera. You know, we can see where they, you know, the biggest demand is. And of course, it's from the ones who might have been less, you know, less up to date or less pushing in the past. But I think all of them have transitioned, but I have to transition, right? If they don't, they won't be relevant. And that's even for like, I think one thing I was quite interesting in this report was like in this 55 proposal was that every, essentially, even if you, I would only build one car a year, this car has to be, you know, non-emitting.

6:13So because in the past, I think there have been different regulations, right? Different on size, volumes. So some of these things only applied for, you know, bigger volumes, et cetera. But if you, let's say like a specialty car maker, right? For a hundred cars a year. So you were kind of exempt. I think there was some number below you were not included, but now this actually changes as well, so it's literally every, every car. I think this really sets quite a stance as well to say, you know, everyone has to be part of it. But I also found it really interesting to discussion, you know, which came in the, in the, in the session was, you know, also kind of like this perspective on, okay. I mean, the reference to tobacco, I found a bit interesting because I think it's not really a positive one, but to say, okay, but what's going to happen globally, right? I mean, one thing is now we're talking about Europe, talking about the US, we're talking China, you know, but there's of course many more countries around the world.

6:59And what is going to happen there, right? I mean, we know that electric vehicles can be cheaper, but like also in smaller scale and the last much longer and things like that. But, you know, will this mean that essentially some countries will not do this transition or when they will just like, not in the same timely manner, right? So that's kind of the question, will car companies still keep producing for these regions? I mean, there was so much discussion, which I don't want to all repeat because I think you just listened to a long session, but I think this was interesting as well. Not just thinking from Europe, but also globally. Do you have some thoughts on that? Yeah, I was actually thinking, you know, again, we were talking about Europe. I was wondering like, when will the rest of the world follow suit? So I think, I don't know, we'll see. Like you said, the Biden administration is trying to set more targets, be a little more aggressive.

7:49But I just think like, it's going to take time. And I think something else I've been thinking about stepping back from electric is just, you know, some, I had a conversation the other day and someone was talking to me about like hydrogen and biofuels. And as you look at the regions, like if region specific, like availability of resources and the ability to even build out infrastructure for electric, it kind of got me thinking like, is an all electric transition worldwide really the only way to decrease emissions? Or should we be getting pretty like more creative about region specific solutions? I'm sure this is not like the most novel idea, but it's, I think I've been so deep in batteries and, you know, we're, we're speaking on battery insiders. So, you know, I get we, we're battery people, but at the end of the day, is that, I don't know, is that the only way that we can transition in this case, you know, like sustainable transportation or should we be looking at region specific answers?

8:55Because some of those regions you mentioned may not necessarily be prepared for all electric. And in some cases they're like making, they're taking like leaps and bounds there in terms of like just leaping from like coal all the way to electric. Whereas, you know, some other countries like the U S and men's like some countries in Europe have had time to actually do a transition rather than just make massive jumps. But I feel like there are countries maybe more so in the global South where, you know, sustainable options have been available, but they haven't necessarily like become all scale or whole scale. Um, and to like meet countries needs, whereas, but they may have other ways to provide resources or, um, just alternative energy sources that may be better for that region. Yeah, no, I think that's, that's a, you know, it's a good point also, you know, I think one thing also an estimate is why like the best transport is probably, you know, public transport, you know, just from a mission standpoint anyways.

9:57But as you say, there's different, you know, ways from small scooters to small vehicles to, you know, drones, electric, you know, I mean, there's, there's so many different options for that. Um, and I found quite interesting though, for example, in this, I'm also, you know, like in this, um, and this announcement from, you know, the Biden administration is to say, they're talking about only electric vehicle sales, right? By 20, 50% so by, by 20, 30, 50%. So not even talking about hydrogen there. Um, as far as I could see. Um, but yeah, I think that's a, there's a definitely important topics. Another thing I just want to say, because by the time it's going to be online, they're also going to be, uh, um, another publication, another report coming out. And that's one from the World Economic Forum and the Global Shapers community. Essentially it's, it's a youth recovery plan and also has one on net zero. And it talks a lot about these implications of fossil fuels and all kinds of things.

10:50Right. So I think, um, that's also looks at, you know, like global representation, right? Like I think they surveyed over 2 million people in total and I was involved in there as well. And, um, yeah, so I think there's also, and some of these movements, let's say, who are, who are looking at these topics from different angles as well. Um, maybe just thought it's in there because it might also be relevant report for people interested in that. And yeah, thanks for the tidbit. Yeah. Put us into the show notes as I learned. That's how you call it. Show notes. Well, thanks for the chat and the show notes. Um, looking forward to next week's discussion. Absolutely. Yeah. Next week we're going to have a session. Actually next week we have a holiday for a week, but then the week after, um, but probably by the time this comes out and the week after then we have a session on battery safety. Battery safety. Oh, safety.

11:44I know a couple of things about that. I'll save it for that conversation though. See you then. See you then. See you then. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.